So wait, natural activity is what something does on its own if it can. We went to space on our own and we could, yet it is not natural? You’re making arbitrary distinctions here.
Your distinction of potentialities is completely arbitrary as well.
Biology textbook, 10th grade, page 120. Look it up, Assassin, thank you.
Abortion’s cool. Lol foeti being alive. Sure they are, everything is. Given the fact that living things get murdered all around I don’t see how that point defends the foetus much. Compared by the “IS ALIVE” property, foeti sure go on the same row as grown-up people. Along with trees. And lichen. Or anything else that’s not a rock, basically. Life is universal. Human life’s a specific concept, defined by our species’ ability to exert cognition. If you think foeti have such a property you are outright wrong in your beliefs. A foetus doesn’t think. A foetus doesn’t have pattern recognition skills. A foetus can’t do calculus. If you think they have the potential to do all those things though, well yes they do, I accept that. The fact of the matter, however, is that you can’t kill a concept. You cannot label abortion morally wrong, since a morally wrong act would be killing a human being. Not the potential of it. Not the concept of it. As bur pointed out, everything has potential. I’ve the potential to become a great writer, but the future holds only two possibilities, that I either do or do not.
Now you’d argue: This isn’t about possibility at all! Okay you’re “probably” not going to become a writer, but it’s not the same with a foetus! It has a natural course, it isn’t “possible” for it to either be or not be born! It’s not its choice, nature has it that a foetus develops and is born at all odds!
Now, technically, that’s not right, we all know about miscarriage. But that’s not your argument, is it, it’s about choice and nature. Why should we make such a choice for our unborn child? Why should we interfere with nature? Why should one deny a foetus its potential to evolve into a human being? As for the woman, we’re going into the “reasons to get an abortion” zone. I believe those have been covered so far. Most if not all of them are justified. As for the foetus itself, look at the previous paragraph, the answer is right there. And about interfering with nature - nature is not the end-all be-all. Evolution has run its course and we’re the result. We’re the next big thing after bacteria and we’re exerting control over evolution because it’s what we must do. People have been breeding dogs for centuries. They have been eliminating malignant bacteria since the advent of medicine, therefore wiping whole virus strains off history’s records. Are those things natural? No. Are they normal? Yes. It’s what a sentient race does, excel nature. Bluntly speaking, the unwanted child is inferior to other human beings. Emotional trauma of the parent and inbreeding (rape and incest), or inadequate upbringing conditions (due to lack of funds, parents being too young etc). Take abortion as the next step of culling, survival of the fittest. Not natural selection - artificial selection. One that’s not dictated by physiological characteristics but by reason on our part. [COLOR=‘Black’]OH FOR FUCK’S SAKES I’M NOT WRITING ANY MORE ON THIS DUMBFUCK SUBJECT ON AN INTERNET FORUM I GOT BETTER THINGS TO DO WITH MY LIFE GOD DAMN OKAY COOL BEANS
An interesting side-note: If you get “cloned”, you don’t get “reborn”. Fuckwit. You’re defined by your conscience and not your body. If you were to be cloned, genetic information aside, the clone would be a completely different person. Even if you were to, say, transmit your conscience into another entity, it would be just a copy job, the real you is still gonna die. Doip.
PS: YEAH THAT’S RIGHT IT’S FOETUS NOT FETUS GET WITH THE TIMES
YES. every single reason for a woman to have an abortion is entirely justified because it is her body, her situation, her life, and her choice.
OK - now HERE is an actual example of circular reasoning, as we were discussing in the other thread.
What k,inda bullshit are you trying to pull here?
The original conext:
it’s alive in the same way a virus or bacterium is alive or the scrapings from the inside of my cheek.
Who said anything about parasites? I didn’t mention parasites at all, and your response wasn’t even close to addressing my point or reality.
CLASSIC straw man. that’s SO dishonest.
No, that’s not what you said.
Here is the original context:
No, that IS the matter. That’s the whole point.
Yes, you did. Several times. See:
And you even do it a few sentences later in your most recent post - after denying that you ever said it:
We all know the reason that you’re attempting to create caveats with this and also the cloning clause.
But, not only do I propose that sperm and ova have the potential to become fertilized ova - but so do you. You said so yourself - not that you needed to say it, but it saves time.
Sperm and ova have the potential to become a fertilized ova, and according to your argument, a fertilized ovum is a person, therefore sperm and ova are persons.
Seriously, man, grow up, you’re not fooling anyone here. This fucking thing is cooked. And your dishonest attempts to salvage it just make you look dishonest, fanatical, and immature.
It’s not your argument anyway, so why make yourself look like a dumbass over it - not that I think it’s OK to cling to bad arguments just because they’re original.
Cloning is absolutely a human activity, you crazy fucker.
But here’s the point with the cloning idea:
Your argument says that something is a person if it has the potential to be a person. THAT is your argument.
But now you see that there are problems with the argument and so now you invent caveats after the fact.
A thing either has the potential to be a person or it does not. You can’t ignore a fact just because it ruins some crappy argument that you’re in love with.
BTW - we all know that this isn’t your argument anyway. It’s a crappy old pro-life argument that’s been pounded like a $5 whore on Friday night.
WTF are you talking about?
Here’s the original context. My comment is an agreement of your comment.
Right, exactly the same potential.
Yes, human cloning happens everyday. Human activity is a part of nature. Your objections are just a lame attempt to salvage a terrible argument - very immature.
to reinforce the above
“a sperm cell or egg cell has to combine with its counterpart first!”
a zygote has to develop into foetus first
a foetus has to develop into a baby first
see what i mean with arbitrary distinctions?
im waiting for him to just say WELL GOD SAYS ITS BAD because thats pretty much what it all boils down to
No, they join to become a fertilized ovum.
No, it’s the same set of potentialities as the sperm and egg. You’re defining things as potential or actual based on whether or not it serves your argument.
You want to make the argument that a zygote has the potential to be a person, therefore it is an actual person. THAT is the argument.
A sperm and ova have the potential to become a zygote, therefore, according to your own argument, since they have the potential to become a zygote, they are an actual zygote.
But now you don’t like potentiality. So, you want to say that a sperm and egg AREN’T a zygote. You want to separate their potentiality and actuality as two discrete things.
OK - fair enough, then we shall separate potentiality and actuality into 2 discrete things, as they should have been all along. But now you don’t have an argument for your zygote. Because potentiality and actuality are 2 different things. A potential person is NOT an actual person.
Or you can keep your potentiality argument and say that jerking off is mass murder.
This thread is as awesome as this. Anyway, I am off to kill 2 Billion potential zygotes. MWahahahahaahahaha.
OK, one simple question HawkeyE. Just so i can tell if i need to tag along on this thread.
Do you believe that abortion is wrong.
if this is enough proof that lizard was humans ansetor than that sould be same for that human was ancestor of lizard. humans have devolved to lizards!
I really have no wish to write wallpaper that will fall on deaf ears.
have you even looked at the image?
the embryo looks pretty much the same until it starts “specializing”
btw i never said it was proof that “humans came from lizards” (wtf?) i said it was evidence for common ancestry
LEARN TO READ
there is plenty of other evidence for evolution btw
… what? like
i cant even
what
assassin how do you FUNCTION
Oh crap I am growing scales!!, now my but can fall of and I can grow a new one!!, Ah I need to be in tropical/desert climate because I am now cold bloooded
I think we should move the evolution related stuff to the “Evolution vs Creation” thread.
Well this really isn’t about evolution, there was just a comment on it. but still, this is an abortion thread, lets not get off topic
A point to make to the ‘pro-lifers’:
If you’re so fucking committed to premise of ‘saving’ a fetus from abortion, why don’t you hop on down to your local abortion clinic. Then when a pregnant teen is about to go in, offer to adopt it. If she can’t abort it, why don’t you fucking take care of it if the issue is that important to you?
IMHO pro-lifers are both arrogant and elitist by imposing their world views and values upon others. If you don’t think abortions should be done then don’t fucking have one, and don’t be so arrogant and high-handed that you think the right to choose whether to abort or not should be taken away from women.
As George Carlin said: Pro-lifers aren’t pro-fetus, they’re Anti-Woman.
EDIT: Also, with regards to your ‘potentiality’ arguement, how do you respond to people having vasecotmies or having their tubes tied? Surely they’re killing ‘potential’ children.
And to troll pro-lifers: Doug Stanhope has opinions for you.
And the potential for a fetus to end up as a world changing hero/genious is slim to none, or at least equal to if they end up as a mass murderer
haha, brilliant
Have a wank; Killing Spree
[COLOR=‘Red’]H[COLOR=‘Cyan’]I[COLOR=‘Lime’]G[COLOR=‘Purple’]H [COLOR=‘Red’]S[COLOR=‘Cyan’]C[COLOR=‘Lime’]O[COLOR=‘Purple’]R[COLOR=‘Red’]E
I win!! what is my prize?