Vortigaunts and The Freeman

[johnyo]

@mechaelite

You love avoid my arguments don’t you?

huh?

@Hazelwolf

my sarcasm detector’s in the shop so I’m not sure if that’s what you’re being here.

I wasn’t

@Hazelwolf

I suppose it comes down to what the vortessence actually is and whether it’s something specific to the Vortigaunt psychic interconnection or if it’s simply their name for the life force of the multiverse that connects all living and sentient creatures, much in the same way ‘humane’ refers to the ideal of fair and ethical treatment which is not necessarily unique to human beings. The overwiki seems to go with the latter.

From some of the things the vorts say, like “We are a tapestry woven of Vortessence. It is the same for you if only you would see it.” I’d assume there’s more to this ‘vortessence’ than ethical treatment. However, since it’s not specified wheather “you” implies Gordon or human race in general, I can’t really back this up. (brb, looking at more quotes)

[EDIT] I’m back! “For a brief time you joined with us. You are one. Between the worlds.” I believe this suggests Gordon (and Alyx) have obtained vortessenceness (:aah at the beginning of HL2 (or end of HL). So, I guess, other humans can’t access those powers.

P.S. I use the term ‘vortessence’ loosely as I have no idea what it means (I guess I shouldn’t be using it at all in that case. Oh, well… :s hrugs: ) I just assume that this ‘vortessence’ allows the vorts (and Gman?) to manage those shenanigans with the timespace.

@Hazelwolf

In which case it’s very likely that the GMan uses the same principles to interact and control Gordon. How that has any bearing on his implied time travelling and use of portals is uncertain, but the Vorts do make mention of being able to perceive moments in time simultaneously, seeing gordon both in the present and in the nihilanth’s chamber. So time and space when perceived within the context of the vortessence become one in the same so it could be that the GMan uses the same principle.

^this

@Hazelwolf

The purple? probably something specific to the Vorts or something mystical and sciencey. It’s very unlikely that the GMan’s actual appearance, whatever that may be, is in any way like the grey-toned human we are accustomed to so it’s likely it’s all a deception to allow him to appear unnoticed to humans and to keep his true nature hidden. In which case he can appear however he wants when using the vortessence if that’s what it is.

I must admit I have always thought of gman as human… well -ish. Now that I think of it, that is completely stupid. It wouldn’t be that hard for a different being to appear and sound as a human (and it’s not like it’s very good at either of those things.)

[Another edit] Hey, that explains the cockroaches in BMRF!

[Hazelwolf]

@johnyo

I’d assume there’s more to this ‘vortessence’ than ethical treatment.

What I meant, but didn’t do a very good job of explaining, is not that ethics and the vortessence are the same but that it makes sense that each sentient race would approach and explain things in their own terms. Just as humans have coined the terms ‘Humane’ and ‘Human rights’ to pertain to certain standards of ethics the Vortigaunts have given their own terms ‘Vortessence’ and ‘Vortal’ to how they perceive the conditions under which they live. So the Vortessence itself could be accessed, perceived and utilised by other species other than just the Vortigaunts. Vortessence is just their term for a thing that could be universal.

@johnyo

It wouldn’t be that hard for a different being to appear and sound as a human (and it’s not like it’s very good at either of those things.)

[Pyroclase]

@Hazelwolf

It would make for an interesting option: the choice between the power of Science the Borealis offers or the power of the Vortessence.

So, we have to choose between either teleporting somewhere (probably full of Combine) or shooting lighting from your fingers? I mean, teleportation (if that’s what they’re even doing on that ship) isn’t too useful for a gameplay mechanic. The potential for sequence breaking alone was reason for a similar ability to be cut from Bioshock.

@Hazelwolf

The Vorts do make mention of being able to perceive moments in time simultaneously, seeing gordon both in the present and in the nihilanth’s chamber. So time and space when perceived within the context of the vortessence become one in the same so it could be that the GMan uses the same principle.

Yeah, that makes sense.
It’s possible that they can see the past, present, and future (the 4th dimension) all at once, in the same way that we can see all the space in front of us (the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd dimensions) (we can’t see behind us, but that’s a biological thing) at once. That is, they are to the 5th dimension what we are to the 4th dimension. I think someone posted a great video of the concepts earlier.

Now, what about the Vort’s apparent unwillingness to forgive Gordon for his acts of violence (his “personal holocaust,” as G-Man puts it) at Black Mesa? I think I already said this, but it seems like the Vorts are only fighting alongside humanity to free themselves; at least those enslaved by the Combine, or the higher power they seem to be hinting at. It’s not like they’re gonna turn on Gordon once we win, but it’s still an interesting idea. Though, if they can see the future… :fffuuu:

Also, has anybody else realized that we’re bringing in string theory and quantum mechanics just to speculate about the plot? :jizz:

[Hazelwolf]

@Pyro

So, we have to choose between either teleporting somewhere (probably full of Combine) or shooting lighting from your fingers? I mean, teleportation (if that’s what they’re even doing on that ship) isn’t too useful for a gameplay mechanic. The potential for sequence breaking alone was reason for a similar ability to be cut from Bioshock.

More than likely. To be honest open choice, although an interesting concept, within Ep3 would just feel weird. Linearity has worked for them so far and so it should remain. It’s essentially interactive story telling where the only dialogue the protagonist is capable of is bullets.

@Pyro

Now, what about the Vort’s apparent unwillingness to forgive Gordon for his acts of violence (his “personal holocaust,” as G-Man puts it) at Black Mesa? It’s not like they’re gonna turn on Gordon once we win, but it’s still an interesting idea. Though, if they can see the future… :fffuuu:

Also, has anybody else realized that we’re bringing in string theory and quantum mechanics just to speculate about the plot? :jizz:

I hope not, I like the Vorts, they’re awesome. I should think that a creature that sees gratitude as unnecessary to beings bonded by common cause and nature is unlikely to hold a treacherous grudge, especially as it has worked in their favour.

The way i interpreted the “we haven’t forgotten, forgiveness is not ours to bestow” line is simply that they will always remember their fallen kin who Gordon killed during the BM incident, linked as they are through the fourth dimension. But as those vorts died as Gordon’s enemies the surviving vorts are unable to definitively forgive Gordon on their behalf. The Victory Mine Vort’s thoughts on death: ‘an eternity’s repose. It brings peaceful thoughts, does it not?’ strike me as the thoughts of a race that isn’t given over to seek needless revenge in the name of the dead. We also need to remember that the vorts are speaking English (or whatever language the game is translated into) as a second language. Flux shifting is probably able to convey very complex concepts and emotions but as they have to speak in an auditary language using human terms it’s very difficult to tell exactly what they mean at times.

As for the Quantum theory: Might seem a bit overkill for an FPS plot but Mark Laidlaw is a pretty cool guy, eh writes intelligent sci-fi and doesn’t afraid of anything.

[Pettifogg]

This thread is a joy to read.

[FireTime]

Eli talked about a power that can(should) not be harnessed or controlled in the Borealis. Kleiner wanted to use it because (just guessing because of the nature of his character) it is a new power or energy source that was created or, I think more likely, recently discovered/harnessed (vortessence?). At the end of ep2 Eli tells the player (Gordon) about his knowledge of the g-man. Now that we know that he knows g-man I would have to suspect that he has a better understanding of the tech involved (due to two things, first is he’s a scientist that makes g-dam teleporters , second is that… i’m not entirely sure how to place it into words but it’s kind of cliché but it has to do to the way I saw the ending of ep2. They build up Eli to be the all-knowing character then kill him as soon as the player would have access to this information. This concept has be used over and over in a plethora of movies. Now the main character has to learn what he was going to be told first hand. And when he learns it, it will all make sense. Due to the face we see eli working closely with vorts and his daughter also being close to them I would suspect his attempting to stop, contain the Borealis’es powers conceivable.

EDIT: also @Pettifogg inorite!

[Pyroclase]

I don’t think you understand the scope of what’s going on behind the scenes. It’s all too possible that Eli’s untimely death was the result of G-Man’s machinations; surely you haven’t forgotten the “unforeseen consequences?” He was probably referring to the fact that closing the portal would surely trigger some sort of backlash from the Combine.

It just doesn’t make sense that those two Advisors would be able to get into the base so easily, without even triggering an alarm; White Forest obviously has some sort of perimeter monitoring system. (that’s how they knew where the Striders were coming from, not to mention the ease with which MIRT was able to rig up a radar to the car) G-Man, however, could easily set up such an incident.

Does anybody have any idea where this discussion is going? Or, for that matter, how it got here?[/SIZE]

@Pettifogg

This thread is a joy to read.

Why thank you. Glad to see it’s actually possible to spark some intelligent discussion here.

[FireTime]

Yah I agree that G-man had dealings with the death of Eli. (they kind of banged that into the players skull) But was the closing of the portal the reason for killing him or was Eli blowing his cover/his intention of destroying the Borealis the true meaning. I think this does provide a good cover of the true story line from the player so when the true story is revealed it can be looked back on as an ah-ha moment.

It could be possible that G-man (or his associates) want what is in the Borealis. Think this would give credence of my concept that G-man killed Eli because of his proposed actions of destroying the Borealis not his past actions of closing the portal. Also I think this fits better with G-man’s style of preemptive actions, not reactive ones.

[Pyroclase]

It was preemptive, because he “warned” Eli ahead of time.

It’s not very likely at all that G-Man wants what’s in the Borealis, because if he wanted it, he could easily have taken it at any time. He’s quite powerful, or so we’re led to believe. It’s more likely that Eli died because he was trying to rebel against the G-Man.

[johnyo]

@Pyro

It was preemptive, because he “warned” Eli ahead of time.

I think that the “unforseen consequences” refer to the borealis, just like Eli himself voiced, rather than Eli’s death, but that’s just a matter of opinion since we can’t really know for sure.

@Pyro

It’s not very likely at all that G-Man wants what’s in the Borealis, because if he wanted it, he could easily have taken it at any time. He’s quite powerful, or so we’re led to believe.

During the cutscene in ep2 Gman admitted he is not allowed to meddle much in the happenings directly. One might, of course, argue wheather he was being truthful in that statement or not.

@Pyro

It’s more likely that Eli died because he was trying to rebel against the G-Man.

Gman is in a position where it hardly matters wheather anyone agrees with him or not. I don’t think he would see Eli (or any human for that matter) as a threat.

[mechaelite]

what I think is that the advisors could pass the white forest defenses thanks to their powers, while the striders were distracting everyone they could have destroyed or manipulated some of the defenses. And the G-man already knew this and wanted to warn Eli. Or how johnyo said, he could be telling him that he would discover the borealis on the message…

[FireTime]

I think that it’s a little farce to think that advisors arrived at that exact moment. While I do see it possible they could breach defenses without detection (kind of an insignificant/impossible talking point ). Due the events preceding the death of Eli I think that it was made fairly obvious that G-man intervened on some level to cause such events to happen. From what we know of g-man his preferred style of interaction is to nuge or setup the environments necessary for his goals to be achieved and let others accomplish them for him. (think all of HL1 and HL2) In fact EP1 is the first time your not doing g-mans bidding thanks to the Vortigaunts.