I play soccer with an Armenian on Fridays. He’s pretty good.
ITT
somebody bitches about a historic innacuracy… Blames Dinkleberg
According to a family legend, taken down by the 11th century Georgian chronicler Sumbat Davitis-Dze,[1] and supplied much later by Prince Vakhushti Bagrationi (1696–1757) with chronological data, the ancestors of the dynasty traced their descent to the biblical king and prophet David and came from Palestine around 530 AD. Tradition has it that of seven refugee brothers of the Davidic line, three of them settled in Armenia and the other four arrived in Kartli (a major Georgian region also known as Iberia by Classical authors) where they intermarried with the local ruling houses and acquired some lands in hereditary possession. One of the four brothers, Guaram (died in 532), allegedly gave an origin to a line subsequently called Bagrationi after his son Bagrat.[2] A successor, Guaram, was installed as a presiding prince of Kartli under the Byzantine protectorate and bestowed, on this occasion, with the Byzantine court title of Kouropalates[3] in 575.[4] Thus, according to this version, began the dynasty of the Bagratids, who ruled until 1801.[5] This tradition had been given a general acceptance until the early 20th century.[6] While the Jewish origin, let alone the biblical descent of the Bagratids, has been largely discounted by modern scholarship, the issue of their origin still remains controversial. Several Soviet-era historians of Georgia developed a view summarized by N. Berdzenishvili and et al. in their standard reference book on the history of Georgia
Many modern scholars, however, question the above version, referring to a more complex analysis of primary Armenian and Georgian sources. Cyril Toumanoff’s research affirms that the Georgian Bagratids branched out of the Armenian Bagratid dynasty in the person of Adarnase, whose father Vasak (son of Ashot III the Blind, presiding prince of Armenia from 732 to 748) passed to Kartli following an abortive uprising against Arab rule in 772. Adarnase’s son, Ashot I, attained to the principality of Kartli in 813 and thus founded the last royal house of Georgia. Accordingly, the legend of Davidic origin of the Georgian Bagratids was a further development of the earlier claim entertained by the Armenian dynasty, as given in the work of the Armenian author Moses of Khorene.[9] Once the Georgian branch, who had quickly acculturated in the new environment,[10] assumed royal power, the myth of their biblical origin helped to assert their legitimacy and emerged as a main ideological pillar of the millennium-long Bagrationi rule in Georgia.[11]
Although certain, generation by generation, history of the Bagrationi dynasty begins only in the late 8th century, Toumanoff has demonstrated that the first Georgian branch of the Bagratids may be traced back as far as the 2nd century AD, when we hear them ruling over the princedom of Odzrkhe in what is now southern Georgia.[12] The Odzrkhe line, known in the medieval annals as the Bivritianis, lasted until the 5th century AD and they cannot be considered as the direct ancestors of the later Bagratids who eventually restored Georgian royal authority.[13]
and the final one:
[COLOR=‘Red’]
The exact origin of the Bagratuni, as well as of the related Georgian branch (Bagrationi) are still an object of debate among historians.[1]
you see? related, not the “differently spelled but same” and their connection is still under debate.
I am not going to install game just to show you that I am right, here is best I could find:
as you see that map is pretty different from georgia of 11th 12th ad 13th centuries. and you cans see that armenia has access to sea.
here is rough map of how different is KOH map from reality
there was newspaper, claiming that most Georgian poets and writers (ilia chavchavadze, akaki wereteli and ect.) were Armenians and traitors of their country. such newspapers were several, there were also scientific claims that that Vefkhistkhaosani (tiger skin, best of all masterpieces in Georgia) was written by Armenian and it was Armenian book. and the Georgian alphabet ( one of 13 alphabets in world) was copied/stolen from Armenian. also there were facts Armenian companies releasing their wine(of low quality) in USA(and god knows where else) with names of popular Georgian wines (wine is the thing Georgians are proud of). if you drunk wine what is actually colored water and you see that this wine is from Georgia will you drink any Georgian wine again? My Georgian friend that lives in USA was so happy when he found Georgian wine and so disappointed when he drunk… same was for Georgian foods. there were some courts about that as well (all of which we won). I have sources of those in Georgian and I don’t know if there is any in English.
you say that not me, I said just that there was armenian guy between devs or they took information about georgia from armenian. and he just made it shitty because he preferred it like that. if there was no armenian involved, there would have been more exact map of georgia because they would have had to find info about georgia and I doubt that they wouldn’t have been able to find it.
Holy shit Assassin you’re crazy. I take everything back. The whole map is full of unaccuracies.
I don’t understand your position.
That whole map is shit.
The lakes of Sweden are all wrong, the Finnish Gulf looks wonky, and apparently Denmark is only Jylland and Sjælland, the latter of which also being far too removed from Sweden.
Judging from all that landmass reduction, it’s obviously a Norwegian conspiracy for capturing Sweden in order to terraform it and destroy Denmark. Man the guns!
Also, what the fuck is wrong with Spain and the west coast of France?
It’s the same family. Bagratuni and Bagrationi have the same meaning - The House of Bagrat. Bagratuni is the Armeni for Bagrationi. Bagrationi is the Georgian for Bagratuni.
You can see that the area to the Northwest that borders the Black Sea is called The Georgian Bagratuni Kingdom. Here’s another:
This is not a case of Armenians using the word Bagratuni to lay claim to any part of Georgia as being Armenian. They use Bagratunii because it’s the Armenian word for The House of Bagrat, or Bagrationi in Georgian. But they clearly mark the territory as Georgian, and not Armenian.
The use of Bagratuni in the game is not inaccurate, it’s just not the Georgian spelling.
You want to claim that the Bagratuni and Bagrationi are different and unrelated, because the real history conflicts with the Georgian historical myth (and also, I suspect, some Georgians are outraged at the idea that their Royal Family came from Armenia). The Georgian view of history is a myth, a fairytale, created in the middle-ages, that claims that Georgia has biblical origins, that the Georgian people are directly descended from David, that the Georgians are the real “chosen-people”. No one outside of Georgia views this as accurate or anything but folklore or myth.
The objective and internationally accepted view is that the Bagratid are one family, originated as the Bagrat in what is now modern Armenia, and branched into what is now Georgia.
At the time that this family had power, there was no modern Armenia and no modern Georgia, and the land controlled by the family had nothing to do with national borders, and certainly not the current modern border between Armenia and Georgia.
They used a map with a kinda weird angle that distort our perception of Europe and cutting through Caucasus didn’t helped to place Georgia and Armenia accurately. It’s more of a sloppy job than a deliberate plot. Plus I have Europa Universalis III from Paradox and it don’t screw up like that.
Every country and nation did steal some shit and/or smear other people, that no news.
I fucking love these Assassin roast threads.
He has a talent for turning a thread into a cross between ‘Cultural Learnings of Black Mesa for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Georgia’ and ‘Mein Kampf’.
did you read what I wrote up there? they may be related but they are not same. they are different surnames like mchedli-shvili and mchedli-dze and mchedl-ovani(in georgia). you cant call those surnames same because they are different NOT SAME NOTSAME different. I live in georgia and I think I should be knowing more about that then you!!
Georgia has never had same problems with any of other countries around : Turkey, Azerbaijan and eve with Russia. and even if we had, such facts are considerably fewer.
this is you people who give to this thread an “extremist” outlook. there is nothing to be done with “glory of Georgia” or “Exterminating Armenians”. it is annoying when you don’t look problem as it is.
that map has a pretty lot of inaccuracies, there is not even mentioned Tao-Klarjeti
THOSE DAMN ARMENIANS
omg you are a RACIST!
OMFG!
This thread just blew up… WITH HILARITY!
But I agree with the OP, those fuckin butthurt Armenians. Jeez! Might as well throw those butthurt Jews alongside em.
You know what Dr. K, you don’t have a fucking clue what the fuck your talking about!
We have more than McDonald’s, there’s Burger King and Wendy’s too you fuck.
‘Related’ means ‘the same family’.
The 2 terms translate to each other. They translate to the same term in English. They both have the same meaning. They refer to the same family. They are the same term with different linguistic spellings.
You have 2 historical maps which use ‘Georgian Bagratuni Kingdom’ for Bagrationi. That’s the ballgame. If you don’t understand what that means in the context of the discussion, then you are either practicing willful ignorance or you are intellectually incapable of understanding the issue.
You know, I had no clue what you were about before this thread, Zen (mostly because I don’t pay attention to anyone without an avatar), but your rep and my respect for you have definitely shot up in my eyes after this thread.
Rainbow Dash was already taken.
Wait… You mean his avatar isn’t the Unknown Comic?
Ugh
Why don’t you guys just go ahead and say it, “Your people all look alike to me.”