UK Riots.

#21

please step out of the confines of your safe worlds and read these:
https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected
https://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots

(crappy) summary of second article:
-brutal cuts and enforced austerity measures
-policies of the past year have clarified the division between the entitled and the dispossessed in extreme terms
-history of the Metropolitan police’s treatment of ordinary Londoners, especially those from black and minority ethnic backgrounds, and the singling out of specific areas and individuals for monitoring, stop and search and daily harassment
-figures for deaths in police custody: at least 333 since 1998 and not a single conviction of any police officer for any of them
-Haringey, the borough that includes Tottenham, has the fourth highest level of child poverty in London and an unemployment rate of 8.8%, double the national average, with one vacancy for every 54 seeking work in the borough
-in UK, richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest, consumerism predicated on personal debt has been pushed for years as the solution to a faltering economy, and, according to the OECD, social mobility is worse than any other developed country

#22

LOL Paultards.

These riots are fucking ridiculous. I’m sure all the kiddies think they’re punk roxxxor for burning people’s vans and smashing their property. That’ll show the man.

#23

EDIT:

Internet arguments are silly

#24

Jeannot is an idiot and I’m not certain why people still read his posts.

#25

I guess ‘arab shpring’ reached the Isles too?

Lol similar was also said when riots started in (quite prosperous and with lots of benefits btw) Libya. We know what happened.
I was in Leeds when that happened and loved how everyone was so pissy about Lybian army being used against armed thugs and now everyone is calling for the army to be brought in London.

Now should Russia push for that pesky monarch Lizzie to resign? Come on, it’s already been 59 years! Should they send Iskanders to bomb the parliament?

But don’t worry, nothing like that will ever happen. Riot will also cease. It’s not like it’s the first one.
But that should teach you a lesson or two. Maybe even widen your horizons a little.

But really guys, Q_Q some more. No one gave two fucks when people were rioting, being shot by foreign snipers and squashed by BMPs near the TV station and White house in Moscow when I was 3 years old in 1993, when ‘democracy’ was being brought in Russia and other ex-soviet countries.

Ya’ll shrug it off, big fucking deal.

#26

should we tikignore him?

#27

Reminds me of 2008 when we have similar riots around Paris.

I agree with bur’s post, poverty and police abuses are some of the triggers.

#28

Step out of my safe world? :expressionless:
I’m right in the middle of tottenham, woodgreen and Finsbury park.

#29

i wasnt really talking about the actual place you live in, i was talking about your social and economic situation, and especially your perception of that of others which is clearly not an empathic one

#30

Lots of people are also worried about the image this is portraying of te country that’s supposed to be hosting the Olympics in 12 months time .

#31

I still think we’re doing a better job than China and Beijing went fairly well.

EDIT: And on the walk into work this morning I walked past a dozen boarded up shops, a burnt out car and a smashed window actually on our campus. Fun times.

#32

My criticism was aimed towards government, I don’t support the riots. I believe in hard work and a free market where people get to keep what they make. So obviously I don’t endorse people stealing from each other. In fact, I believe the only system that won’t collapse is one that doesn’t require the use of force to achieve its goals. Seeing how government can only work through the use of force, you can see where my criticism towards it comes from.

The moment someone confronts you with reality, you attack them, because it’s so painful to see the reality for what it actually is. You’d rather live the illusion, and attack anyone who dares to show you otherwise. That’s how the system remains the way it is, that’s why people thought slavery was ok, that’s why it took so long for the Roman Empire to finally collapse. Why is it that people are so good at judging events in the past but are so horrible at judging the system in the present? It’s because they grew up in that specific environment, that’s why we think slavery is bad and back then they thought it was fine. If you can’t escape this view and look at our current situation from the outside, then how can you properly judge the system?

#33

Interesting. How do you stop wrongdoing then? Or, at least, have consequences for wrongdoing?

#34

Whenever you are presented with a problem, the logical thing to do would be to find out the source of the problem. Judging by your question, the problem would be violence / the use of force. In our current system, we do the following: we try to stop force by giving a specific entity (the government) a monopoly on the initiation of force. This is a contradiction, and it makes no sense whatsoever. It does not remove the source of violence, and only makes it worse by monopolizing it.

Modern science has shown countless times that the reason people become criminals or endorse in violence is because of experiences during their childhood, a time when their brains are still developing. Children that were abused during their childhood for example are more likely to engage in criminal activities in later life. Some people like racists want you to believe that some people are just inherently evil, this is bullshit and science shows otherwise. It’s all about the environment. Studies have shown that people who had a troublesome childhood literally have a different brain. Don’t take that the wrong way though, I’m not saying all such people would become criminals nor am I stating that it would be impossible to turn the situation around.

Anyway, you either solve violence by getting rid of its source. Or you stick with the modern system of giving one group of people a monopoly on violence so they can use it to stop other violence. I’ll go with the first. So far, all systems (whether communism, fascism or capitalism) use the second method, and this is why every single one of those systems have failed in the past. I must mention however that I am pro-capitalism, but against the use of government. The system we have today is not a free market or capitalism, those will only work without a government. The government is the true source of all the problems, some people fail to see this and blame capitalism instead. This is why I have a problem with anarchists. Anarchists see the problem of violence that comes with governments, but fail to see that a free market is required to have a successful society. You can’t have a society without an economy, no matter how primitive such an economy would be.

#35

Wait what?!

#36

What is it you don’t understand? As far as I know the government is the only entity capable of legally using force to achieve its goals. If you send a group of men to someones house and steal half of their income every month I can assure you that another group of men will storm through your front door and put you in jail. Only the government is legally allowed to use force to achieve its goals (like taking half of someones income through taxation)

#37

You didn’t read a word I wrote, did you?

If someone initiates force (commits wrongdoing) in your “utopia”, what do you do with this person to make sure that they’re at least is held responsible for their actions?

Also, do you realize that your “utopia” initiates force against others?

#38

Jeannot, I’m sorry, but you’re a fucking moron.

Unless there is fundamental change in people of the country - state mechanism will be fucking same, no matter what forms it takes.

Every country gets a leader it deserves.

Also, allowing so much cheap work force in the form of gastarbaiters is a direct consequence of being greedy californicated twats - and thus never brought any good to any country before.

As for riots - the best way to deal with them is a heavy base of 7,62 automatic fire over these fuckers’ heads so everyone goes fucking home. Nothing cools your head off better than a high caliber bullet flying right by you… unless you’re drugged.

#39

Read the Wiki on Anarcho-capitalism, I wouldn’t know how to explain it better.

My ‘utopia’, more commonly referred to as anarcho-capitalism, is founded on the idea of not using force.

“Anarcho-capitalism is a political philosophy that advocates the elimination of the state in favour of individual sovereignty in a free market.”

I thought that would have been pretty obvious, the Roman empire didn’t fall in a weeks time either. I’m not saying this will happen in my lifetime for I am well aware of that. Also, I’m not looking to change the state but rather to abolish it. There’s no denying that our current system is unsustainable, and that collapse is inevitable.

People need to wake up, and ask themselves, why do we need leaders? Why do we give away more than half of our hard earned income to the state? A free market would solve any problem, thousands of times more efficiently than any government could ever do. Just look at the financial crisis, what a complete utter disaster thanks to our governments with their guaranteed loans, money printing, promised liabilities and bank bailouts.

Don’t forget, the US started with a small government, lots of freedom and a free market system. As wealth grew thanks to the free market, more money became available for the government through taxation, and thus the government grew bigger and bigger. Now the US has the largest government in the world, the highest rate of imprisonment in the world, and takes more than half your income through direct or indirect taxation. There are thousands of regulations that limit the free market making it harder and harder for you to start your own business and make a living for yourself. Instead you are forced to waste your life working for some major multi-national corporation that gets massive benefits from the state. This would never happen in a stateless, free market society.

#40

governements? FRS is a private lot. Central Bank of Russia is a private lot and has most of it’s obligations in dollars, even though the ruble is getting on top now as a reserve currency and is being nationalized. All fucking banks today and most of the gold reserve is now in private hands.

I’ll give you one example.
Do you know what caused massive starvation in Russia during the nineties? Privatisation.
Businessmen in power just sold state assets to foreign bidders, for laughable money.
Only in 2003 Putin just went in and busted the fucking PSA - under which Russia was getting only 20 cents of every dollar of oil it produced at Sakhalin and, to add an insult to injury, was in debt to the private oil companies which were robbing the state and the people.
After just one year since PSA was terminated - Russia’s GDP quadrupled, average income per capita and pensions doubled, every family can now afford a decent car and army budget started to look respectable.

That’s why there were 5 recorded assassination attempts on Putin. That’s why heroin is being trafficked north from Afghanistan to destabilize a whole region. That’s why chechen terrorists are conveniently trained in Iraq and reveal traces leading further to the west.
That’s why you hear loads of ‘russian bear empire is rising, be scared’ or ‘putin’s corrupted regime’ bullshit in privately owned media.
That’s why they bitch about Georgia, but Kosovo and Iraq are acceptable.

State assets are being returned to state, being nationalized. That’s hell for the private dealers.

It’s not governments, it’s not state - it’s businessmen in power. Capitalism, if you like.

Now maybe show me one working example of this?
Now without the state - who’s going to give you gas and electricity? Who’s going to provide security? In who’s hands will the factories we all depend on be? Who’s going to consolidate nations ffs? Private companies?

Cosmopolitan theory is bullshit. Leave alone that kiddie-wanker anarcho-capitalism which was pulled out of someone’s ass.

We all know how it works when thanks to some dishonest private airline companies, people were stranded for weeks without a flight - because they suddenly decide to go bankrupt by ‘losing’ all their assets somewhere offshore, get away with all the planes and then create another airplane company that does the same shit with exact same cheap planes a year after. And no one gives the fuck, no one gets in jail and no one gives help to passengers, because hey - it’s capitalism.
Wanna taste anarchy like that?

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