Am I the only who thinks the gasworks is actually MUCH better (besides Text, of course)?
what?
@Text
MUCH BETTER. Only two suggestions now:
- Keep the blue pipe the same color throughout the gasworks. The paint change doesn’t make much sense as it’s carrying the same materials, w/e they may be.
- Swap the barrels on the rack for something else. There’s already a barrel storage area in the furnace that ain’t storing barrels.
Re criticism:
I can understand why you find some of this criticism demoralizing but there’s a lesson to take from it and it’s as follows: you are like a sculptor carving a bust of a person. Eventually, you get to the point where that person’s face is as perfect as can be and any additional chiseling will only mess it up. Right now, you are the sculptor that continues to chisel at something that’s pretty much perfect so almost anything you do at this point will likely make it shittier, not to mention waste time, which is what many of these changes have been. Perhaps you should regard the feedback as the community telling you that everything is FINE so you don’t need to make major changes. It’s one thing fixing clipping issues and minor BS that people have been suggesting of late, but everything else is good enough.
As for the sculptor analogy, the only area that could potentially be chiseled more is the end tunnel leading to the tank battle. I think I finally figured out why I don’t like it…it’s because it’s a functional hallway from C2A5G that leads to a dead end (irregardless of how many fake doors you put into it), which is really weird. It’s kind of a subconscious thing but the lack of stuff there makes it stick out.
-Also, I know the abrupt bend was ALWAYS there.
Shit sucks. Even a 12 year old could have done better.
On a less obvious note, the only thing I’m currently not sure about is the manner in which the grunts are getting smashed by the ICV. The main problem is that the whole scene is obscured by a rather ugly smoke and as a result you see fuck all. Which kind of defeats the purpose of the whole smashing action.
I’d rather you get rid of the actual explosion (in part because the BM ICV gib looks well fucking ugly with all the wheels coming off) and have the ICV just rammed into the wall (and grunts) - or at least have it explode after it hits the wall - I get what you wanted to achieve with the smoke, but as said before that thing is ugly under that lighting.
Maybe play with the transparency setting or use entirely different particles?
P.S. TBH, I’d rather you use an Abrams instead of ICV. More massive, better for hammering, no ugly gibs. Fuck the ‘making sense’ bit too.
P.P.S. Should be obvious from now on how much I dislike BM’s ICV.
P.P.P.S. I know that shit will 99% not be redesigned, but I had to say all the things above.
EDIT: Oh and can you get rid of the custom shockwave after the garage trap is set off? Doesn’t collide well with the walls and looks genearally weird. Keep it on the Osprey and Abrams blasts, but make a separate effect without the shockwave just for the garage bit? I’m sure it won’t be hard on resources.
Here’s the thread
https://forums.duke4.net/topic/5545-black-mesa-2012-media-campaign/page__view__findpost__p__143995
Text,
first of all, thank you for your work and for implementing Conti’s suggestion about the valve (it DOES look very good!).
Said that, I would like to chime in about the “it’s too bare” kind of issue. In my gaming experience (but I could extend it to literature, film making, etc.), I learned to appreciate working by “subtracting” instead of “adding”. With that meaning that adding for the sake of making something less “bare” is not always an improvement. More often than not, it’s actually bad. It’s the desert’s syndrome: “look, only sand and a blinding light… how boring… perhaps a nice cactus here… Oh yes, and an oasis! Wait… There is no life though… Let me just place a scorpion here and one there…”. Is that still a desert? Or its beautification?
Congrats to all. We’ve reached the 100 page mark for this forum topic. Well done!
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Re: Gasworks redesign.
The blue-yellow pipe looks odd. Functionally, what’s the reason for the color change mid-length? Should stick with the original gray colored pipes. Fits in more with the rest of the overall look. As for the rest of it, adding in a few things can work, but too many things can ruin it. As someone else mentioned, adding in things just for the sake of adding them is wrong. There needs to be a reason and justification for the additions. You need to be selective and work within your original vision, concept and design. As they say, less is more.
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Text, here’s a head scratcher for ya’.
I was playing C2A5I. The Garg chased me down the tunnel. I stopped outside of the partially opened blast doors to view his approach. He came around the corner pushing along a destroyed Humvee in front of him. Upon reaching the blast doors, the Humvee clipped through them and stopped just outside of them. The Garg performed his scripted routine and broke through the doors. I stayed in the immediate area and started backpedaling along the roadway. The Garg was doing his patrolling when all of a sudden the Humvee flew high across the air about halfway to the enclosed parking lot. A Garg interaction did not appear to trigger this event. The Garg approached me so I scampered away. I then heard an impact sound off behind me. I turned and saw nothing, not even the Humvee! It was gone. It was only by noticing traces of black smoke rising into the air that I realized that the Humvee had been launched high into the air again and sent over the doors and walls into the parking lot. That’s what caused the impact sound that I had heard moments earlier. I “no-clipped” over the closed doors to confirm that the Humvee was indeed there and it was. The Garg then came to the doors and forced his way through them. I then exited the game in order to write this feedback.
All in all, it was absolutely hilarious. I don’t know what caused the Humvee to launch itself twice into the air like that. In either instance, the Garg was not in the immediate vicinity of the Humvee. You, figure it out.
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Additional & FINAL Feedback For v1.0-RC1 (Bring on RC2)
- Move this door control box to the other side of the large door (see picture). Same wall face. Ensure it’s centered within the wall face. Match the height to the control box on the other side of the wall. Barney should not have to walk across the entire face of the door to access it. Makes more sense that it should be situated closer to the security hut. Also ties in with the location of the same control box on the other side of the wall.
- On the roof where the maintenance hatch is, looking out straight across the yard in the distance beyond the rooftops there’s a large arched white building with segments missing. https://imgur.com/gS0iv . What is this building supposed to be?
- Can these steps and the sidewalk be better aligned (see picture). Looks a little peculiar this way.
- In the hallway leading to the HECU being thrown through the wall, there’s a hole in the ceiling. Similarly, there’s a hole in the ceiling in the room with the AGrunt. There’s an ash-dropping mechanic in this area. Oddly, in both instances, the majority of the ash droppings are clipping through the undamaged parts of the ceiling, instead of most of the ashes dropping through the holes in the ceiling.
- In the destroyed ladies bathroom, there’s a texture seam glitch, in the form of an angled white line (see picture). Flickers on and off. More noticeable with your flashlight on.
- Another one of those illuminations with phantom light source issues (see picture).
- In gasworks, move this door control box over next to the large door (see picture). Again, this mimics the design as with other similar doors and matches with the location of the same control box on the other side of the wall.
- In the upper floor of the security office in gasworks there are two desks below the rack of monitors. There’s a grey colored pipe in the openings of these two desks that should be removed. https://imgur.com/bBztx . An almost exact setup exists on the lower floor, but the desks situated there do not have this grey pipe.
- In gasworks just outside the lower entrance door to the security office, there’s a support bracket for the metal walkway above. The two wall anchor plates that attach to the wall of the security office exhibit a texture glitch. They fade in and out of view. https://imgur.com/VolW8 and https://imgur.com/HK495
- In the room you enter through the large doors next to the security hut, there are several steps that lead to a concrete walkway. At the end of this walkway to the right, nearest the large doors, are two large crates. Above these crates, in the corner, is a support bracket for the metal walkway above. This support bracket clips into the adjacent wall. https://imgur.com/gEXJf
- In this same room is a door control box for the large doors. It should be repositioned and centered between the existing vertical beams.
- In the Garg yard as you come out of the tunnel on the right hand side, there are two yellow collision posts and a concrete slab. These should be removed as they serve no purpose. On a minor note, grass is clipping through this concrete slab. https://imgur.com/KqA8d
- In the Garg yard, the player can clip through the three rods at the end of the fallen comm tower. https://imgur.com/H2Ccj
- In gasworks on the upper metal walkway near the security office where the AGrunt teleports in, the lower railing near the corner is missing a section mid-length. https://imgur.com/UJdxS
- In the Garg yard, the large doors for the parking lot are obstructed from fully opening by the yellow collision posts. https://imgur.com/NnW7k . Realistically, right now these doors do not open sufficiently enough to allow for larger vehicles to safely pass through and there’s barely enough room for cars to do so. Reposition the four yellow collision posts.
- In the Garg yard, as you exit the tunnel, there’s a structure to the left. The problems are with the security fence, specifically with the far right post upright. https://imgur.com/4JMiE . Firstly, there are numerous instances of wires from the adjacent wall clipping through it. Secondly, the lower portion of this post clips into the adjacent wall. Move this entire security fence slightly to the left.
- In the tank yard, there’s a dead Zombie in the destroyed men’s bathroom. In his default position, his whole head, with headcrab attached to it, clips into the floor. https://imgur.com/sZPyq . If you interact with the dead Zombie, his entire body becomes visible and behaves normally. When I first saw him, I thought he was headless. Would’ve been cool if he in fact was.
- Can flame sounds be added to burning vehicles in the Garg tunnel, after they are destroyed by the Garg?
- In the Garg entrance area, move the two large blue garbage containers forward, as the rear on both clips into the wall. https://imgur.com/D3agb
- In the Garg entrance area, down the ramp just around the right corner, mounted up on the wall are two AC units. https://imgur.com/EwU3q . Reduce the abnormally loud electrical hum sound emanating from them.
Thanks again, Text. Stiff upper lip, ol’ chap. You’re nearing the end! Actually, we all are, if you believe in the Mayan calendar prophecy. According to them, it all ends tomorrow.
Edit: wanted to ask about the final release’s release date, but that would be rude.
Delete this comment pls.
From what’s been mentioned here just recently, the scheduled release of v1.0 Release Candidate 2 is due later today, Dec. 20/12. Then the community will have one last opportunity to provide feedback concerning problems or suggestions. Barring any “unforeseen consequences”, the release of v1.0 Final should occur sometime next week, but this exact schedule is to be determined by Text.
I’ll change it all to the same light blue colour that it blends to halfway through. It looks nicer given the lighting of the gasworks. I may have also just thought of a way to have a nice bend in the pipe without using the torus tool, though we’ll have to wait and see if that works.
EDIT: It worked, very well. I’m glad. The texture on the bend is a little blurry for my liking, but I’m not a texturer, not much I can do about it (as I used a model which I scaled up).
As for the hallway leading up to the tank battle, I personally don’t have a problem with it. The hallway goes through several rooms and leads to a door at the end, which could go anywhere else. I know it’s blocked off, so from the player’s perspective there’s no real difference, but you still can’t really say it’s a dead end. I’ve already redesigned the end part of the hall a little bit, it does look a lot better. I’m afraid the rest you’ll probably just have to live with.
Damn, my feelings may never recover from the damage dealt this day.
I kid. The battle with the LAV and the Grunts, unfortunately I haven’t added any effects here, and thus can’t take them away either. The explosion for the LAV and all that, the gibs and all, are simply the way it works in Black Mesa. I can’t really change it. And switching it to an Abrams, as you said, would require a fairly dramatic redesign (the tunnel is too small currently for an Abrams), and in addition the Aliens can’t damage the Abrams, but they can damage the LAV. I don’t like the LAV too much either, in all honesty, it’s WAY more buggy than the Abrams, but unfortunately I don’t think an Abrams would work here.
As for the shockwave effect in the garage trap, you’re probably right. I’ll remove it and look to see if it still looks alright.
Hrm. Turns out I was wrong. Reading that wasn’t productive at all, it just irked me. Funny that. There’s one group of the community you can’t ever please.
That whole discussion about BM not being professional quality is a bit ridiculous, especially the guy who brings up his UT2004 maps.
I also fail to understand how them not having clip volumes up the ass, holding the player’s hand like he’s some kind of moron, can be considered a “bad” or “unprofessional” thing, but maybe that’s just my attitude to gaming. CS:GO has clip volumes up the ass, meaning players can never get stuck in corners or on small objects, and the movement in those terms simply sucks and fails miserably for a supposedly competitive shooter. The problem is that stopping players from getting stuck like that GENUINELY is a slippery slope, it’s not a logical fallacy I’m using. Eventually you have games such as (well, nearly all modern shooters, actually) where you can’t go behind things, on top of things, into corners, into nooks and crannies, because the developer has blocked them off. I HATE that. The fact that Black Mesa doesn’t do this is one of the things I love about the game. It doesn’t treat me like I’m a fucking moron who gets stuck in corners all the time. Okay, fair enough, getting stuck on a small screw sticking out 2 inches from the wall is a bit dumb, but…if you consider THAT to be deal breaker? I’m not sure anything could please.
Besides the point, I’m not sure what that guy’s objection to my hangar is. Just saying NO USER MADE MAP CAN GET AWAY WITH THIS…isn’t fucking helpful. I actually can’t see a problem with it. Is it that it wasn’t aligned properly at the bottom? Is it because it cuts off abruptly at the edge of the curve? That’s how to post criticism unhelpfully. Regardless, I’ll probably add a metal support around the edge of the curve to alleviate that, and I’ve already changed the texture. I gained something from it, but only barely.
This sounds about right.
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IMPORTANT EDIT BELOW:
EDIT 2: One thing I did yesterday, which is the final (I suppose) “big” change that I’ll make to these maps, is the control panel right at the start of C2A5G. I can’t remember who, but someone complained a while ago that they could just run through the Vort fight at the start. I’ve tried to correct this, but it’s fairly easy to revert if, it doesn’t work. This was another thing I was going to keep a surprise but I figured I’d get feedback on it first. I replaced the control panel with a switch like the ones you operate for doors on C2A5H. This keypad is disabled initially. In the side room with the Vort, next to the already existing power boxes, is a new switch like the ones you see throughout Black Mesa. The idea is, you throw it, and it turns on the power for the switch/door. You go back and it’s now illuminated green, and you can open it.
So…2 questions.
- Better/worse than just having the blue control panel there?
- Weird dilemma here. I currently have it so the switch is red before you turn on the power, and green after. It makes more logical sense to have it no colour beforehand, as the power is supposed to be off, but it makes it less intuitive at a first glance that that control panel will be activated when you pull the switch. If I kept this, should the switch by the garage door be illuminated red beforehand, or just be dark?
Love the idea. Add it in and leave it indicating red.
Is there appropriate existing signage to clue the player what to do? “Function Override Available”? I don’t mind hand-holding the player in this type of scenario.
Is there any sign presently posted for the storage room? Maybe affix an “Electrical Room” sign to it. Might be enough of a clue. This may mean having to tidy up the room slightly and make it more “electrical” looking.
Also, it forces another alien encounter that some players presently miss entirely. They may not notice or have any reason to enter the storage room. This forces them to do so.
Double also, it adds another puzzle.
(One of the other surprises is a vent/pipe headcrab encounter, right?)
Should work…it’s a non-issue though. If you really wanted to, you could still skip all the garage fights and the battle outside the garage and simply run into the car shop. Just a matter of playstyle really.
Far better now!! i love it : )
it looks perfect now… watched this video 4 times… i dont understand the criticism of the other guys here, they dont have taste… the gasworks hall is perfect now for me
edit: i saw, that you changed it again meanwhile… please do it exactly like in the video again! : S
For that matter you could skip the entire LAV and Abrams fights as well and you can take a shortcut in the gasworks avoiding another fight and then run from the garg and run to FaF without fighting him. The normal player that’s just playing through the maps for the first time isn’t going to be playing that way. I agree that accounting for that type of play isn’t really an issue in the maps.
It’s as much of a non-issue as players throwing TOW missiles outside the TOW courtyard. The only difference is, that the Vort vs 50Cal is supposed to be a PLAYER encounter, specifically speaking. Plus, if you run through to the garage it kinda ruins the next encounter by adding anything from 2 - 6 Vorts to the next fight (wrecking balance and whatnot), as well as tanking the framerate due to the amount of AI in an already average performing area. There’s nothing wrong with making it a little bit longer for the player, and tougher for speedrunners.
Nah, it’s much better as it is now.
Re: Gasworks rework.
I have to agree with Wangman and Chickenprotector, on a couple of issues.
The two generators really don’t belong, but if you insist, I suggest keeping one of them, but please get rid of that big-ass AC unit, as it’s completely out of place.
Just dark, since the power is off. Buttons lit is the visual clue on where the power switch works after being turned on.
THis has to do exactly what with a straight gangway where the walls have a bad collision?
Exactly, nothing.
It is about proper collision meshes … not about blocking off a player or guiding him or taking him by the hand.
There are technical and gampleay reasons there should be low poly collision meshes for complex objects. And even Valve say so, that it is best for mapping in the Source Engine.
This is what I mean from an example of HL2 EP2 which you must be hating with passion, because you cannot get stuck on this: 
There are many other examples (even in this section at the start of EP 2). And last time I cheked I don’t get stuck on little lightswitches or screws in a wall anywhere in HL1, HL2, EP1 or EP2.
PS: Before anybody comes do false conclusions. I love Black Mesa, and it is the best Mod I have ever seen. And I am really looking forward to this mappack/mod too. It looks amazing. Unfortunately I don’t have time to test it before final release. I managed to only play through BM once, yet. And I had it an hour after the links were released.
It was perfect as it was in that video… dont listen to the other guys here… i pay you 10 dollars, if you redo it again like it was in the video… i get headache… it was so perfect…
other topic: remove some of the xen flora and the headcrabs in the bathroom of the destroyed building… too much vegetation at one place = cluttered and not very believable…
Just a suggestion- if you’re turning that small room at the start of C2A5G into an “Electrical Room” to power up the door, how about having the lights turned off in there when you first walk in?
The only thing visible would be a blinking from the electrical box you’re supposed to use which would help guide you in, and the Vort’s charge attack would look pretty epic lighting up the room.
Once power is restored, the lights switch on.
So u can address other issues we requested aswell, if u make a big overhaul again!