Surface Tension Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

General Development Source 1
#2541

@ Text,

Wow! What a kick in the teeth. You chipped my tooth, damn it!

Let me start my response by addressing the “waste of time” comment that keeps cropping up. Concerning my time, if I want to “waste” it, which I don’t think I am, it’s my prerogative what I do with my time. It’s. My. Time. Concerning your time, I specifically lay out my feedback in a concise manner with carefully composed screenshots, with the obvious reason being to assist you in disseminating it as easily and quickly as possible. To me, it’s a far simpler process than you make it out to be. The way I see it, it’s read the issue, view the screenshots, decide if it’s valid and worth doing. Simple mechanics, no. A simpler one is not to register an issue in the first place, but that defeats the purpose of what were trying to accomplish here. Besides, you’re not that good, yet. So, either the issue gets rejected outright (which you confirm happens most of the time) or it gets addressed or possibly placed in a maybe category. I don’t see tons of time being wasted, here. Granted, reviewing some 500 issues for OaR Uncut maps A and B alphas can eat up a significant amount of time, I’ll give you that.

You stated that issues 1 through 17 would not be addressed. You also commented that it was a waste of your time because of having to go into the editor to investigate each issue. Let’s have a review here of these issues:

  1. In the power up room, the arc from this light https://i.imgur.com/VKtGcSJ.jpg originates too far away from it’s body https://i.imgur.com/PqEjzO1.jpg. Also, move the arc point to the end of the fixture, where the terminals are.

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. In the Carpark level G stairwell https://i.imgur.com/DyWi6r0.jpg, the shadow from the dead zombie can be seen through the stairs https://i.imgur.com/r7ObfS3.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/icz3yy5.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Move on.

  1. The arc from this light https://i.imgur.com/1CQDe7C.jpg originates too far away from it’s body https://i.imgur.com/R7Q1d0e.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. On Carpark level 1, can anything be done with these highly noticeable texture seam issues? https://i.imgur.com/nlIIsVn.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/QCk2YHn.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/AMhFa2d.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor possibly needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. On Carpark level 1, I marginally noclipped into this wall on the left https://i.imgur.com. /pXZeD0W.jpg at which point certain light fixtures and support pillars temporarily vanished https://i.imgur.com/JVb2WKq.jpg. It also resulted in seeing these beautiful vistas https://i.imgur.com/NPh2JJR.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/n3TrZKv.jpg. I was able to replicate the problem. I could still play the level. Running into the vistas brought back the proper textures.

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

The reason I reported issue #5 was because I had never experienced what occurred, either in your levels, the BMS levels or in other games. I was noclipping to confirm that the camera I found buried in one of the support pillars had been removed. Innocent enough. I concluded it was specific to your level and thought it prudent to tell you, as it seemed to be a serious issue, that others may experience.

  1. On Carpark level 1, sparks from the arcing light above the stairwell window pass through the wall/window into the stairwell https://i.imgur.com/kW5MN2U.jpg

Similar instances previously reported, with almost all being corrected. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Move on.

  1. In the Carpark stairwell, consider centering all of the ceiling lights between the wall and the middle support pillar https://i.imgur.com/fEVmYCW.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/1ZRxLyj.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. Any chance that the doors in the Carpark stairwell can be made to open towards the wall and not towards the center of the stairwell?

Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Move on.

  1. In the Carpark stairwell, consider adding a light to illuminate this darkened area https://i.imgur.com/lD1dw9q.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/Wssk6Ec.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. In the Carpark, consider correcting the issue with light appearing directly above/behind almost all of the fluorescent lights https://i.imgur.com/Ucau9zV.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/dxrAurp.jpg so that they appear like this https://i.imgur.com/AgmGsJF.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/ywb38U2.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

Rejection of issue #10 should be reconsidered. There is one fluorescent light that closely resembles how a real-world light functions and is visually accurate.

  1. In the Carpark level 1, there are two instances where the flashlight causes painted lines to become obscured https://i.imgur.com/k15v5jT.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/ywXQqDC.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/OgHSL3M.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/fXnVWfp.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Previously reported and is engine related. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. In the Yard, consider illuminating the light above door number 3 https://i.imgur.com/7Flp04J.jpg in order for the blue crate tarp to display a nice lighting effect, like at door number 1 https://i.imgur.com/OEGTALb.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the proposal. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Move on.

Issue #12 was a suggestion and not an issue.

  1. In the Yard, there’s a texture anomaly on the ground to the right of these blue crates https://i.imgur.com/K5pXSqn.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/nQAAbxa.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/jZgGcTj.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor likely needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. In the Yard, this military crate https://i.imgur.com/UKrlPEO.jpg clips into the blue crate https://i.imgur.com/YhtgUOT.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Move on.

  1. In the Garage, some alien material clips through the ducts https://i.imgur.com/DlyP2Lw.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/qhbfr80.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/9mfRQxN.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/PPnCMkE.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Issue previously reported. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. In the Garage, can the shadows be removed from these objects? https://i.imgur.com/UZsyi0J.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/rYydY8I.jpg

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Next issue.

  1. In the Garage, consider repositioning these large blue crates https://i.imgur.com/RPTn0ag.jpg so that they are clear of the roll-up doors, and don’t block them in any way.

Detailed support images clearly showing the issue. Editor not needed. Issue rejected. Move on.

To summarize, based on my assumptions and the nature/complexity of the issue, editor use was required on 3 out of 17 issues. Not so bad really, time wise. Not so favorable, from an issue-accepted-and-corrected perspective. Was time wasted? Obviously. Was a lot of time wasted? In my view, strictly related to the review of feedbacks, absolutely not.

Now, let me comment on some other observations you made:

  1. “Any chance that the doors in the Carpark stairwell can be made to open towards the wall and not towards the center of the stairwell?” No. They open both ways to make it less frustrating for the players to both access and leave the stairwell.

You’ve misunderstood me here. I don’t have a problem with the doors opening inwards and outwards. It’s the fact that when the door opens into the stairwell, it should open towards the stairwell wall and not towards the middle/center of the stairwell. As a result, the player does not have an unimpeded, straight line to the stairs leading downward, he/she has to step around the door because it doesn’t fully open. It’s in the middle of the stairwell and in the way. Conversely, if the door opens inward towards the wall, the player has a direct and unobstructed path to the downward stairs. It’s just a more safe, efficient and logical door mechanic, especially when dealing with a large group of people who, for arguments sake, are being evcuated or chased by something. Anything familiar come to mind?

  1. “In the Garage, some alien material clips through the ducts i.imgur.com/DlyP2Lw.jpg” Unfixable. Do you really think I would have left this if it were not fixable? The Alien moss in that vent is a full, entire model. Because it is a model I cannot edit it in any way. It cannot be repositioned because it’s already in the dead center of the vent. Moving it more to the other side makes most of the moss on the right side of the vent clip all the way through, which renders the model pointless. There’s nothing I can do. It’s a fairly hefty bug, and I’m not happy about it, but it isn’t fixable. The only way to solve it would be to make the vent 8 units thick so it doesn’t clip through, but that would be ridiculous.

It’s a case of the issue being high up and out of the way and me wrongly assuming that it went unnoticed by you. I should know better. But, you have missed even obvious things in the past, so it’s really me keeping you honest. I miss the days when you responded to each submitted feedback issue. Thanks for the explanation.

  1. “In the Garage, can the shadows be removed from these objects? https://i.imgur.com/UZsyi0J.jpg and i.imgur.com/rYydY8I.jpg” Would you just prefer it that every physics model doesn’t have a shadow? Because I’m pretty sure most people would consider THAT a bug. Let’s reference what your-name-here said:
    “Also many of your other bugs are all about shadows. Much of those aren’t due to Text but the engine itself. He’ll disable the shadows and then he’ll get bug reports (from a certain someone) saying certain objects aren’t casting shadows”.
    Spot on.

Almost always, I ask that odd/ugly or nonsensical shadows be removed. A good example is three vending machines side-by-side, two have shadows but the third one doesn’t. Non-physics models with different shadow attributes. Same scenario with three large non-movable cabinets. Or shadows that contradict the position of the light source. If you see this often enough, it partially damages the immersion factor. And your-name-here actually missed a spot. To the best of my knowledge, I’ve never asked that a shadow be removed and at a later date ask that it be re-added, and I’ve never asked that an object be given a shadow.

  1. “In the Garage, consider repositioning these large blue crates https://i.imgur.com/RPTn0ag.jpg so that they are clear of the roll-up doors, and don’t block them in any way.” Why? What would be the point? The other side of the door is blocked already by crates on the other side. Why does that one need to be unobstructed? Again, another pointless report.

Here’s my take on this. When the crates were delivered, would someone working in the garage decide to have them placed where they would be in the way? Not likely, especially when there’s no forklift or pallet hand truck readily available. Do you see either one of these in the garage? I would expect that the number one rule in a garage is “DON’T BLOCK THE DOORS!”. That, and I’m sure no smoking near gasoline is high up on the rules list. Yes, there are two other doors, but I think the mindset is to have maximum options available at all times. The crates and stuff outside the door in all likelihood were placed there after the garage workers ran off, were evacuated or killed. Does all this sound plausible to you? The real purpose of the crates is to serve as cover from fire for the player. Makes perfect, logical sense gameplay wise. Placing them so that they don’t interfere in the day-to day workings of a garage makes it believable real-world wise.

  1. “In the TOW yard, from a consistency/common sense perspective, consider placing lights above the following doors.” I have a policy of trying to place lights only above important doors. Placing lights over every door would overload already demanding sections of the very open map.

Understood. I’m all for reducing overloaded demanding sections, especially the helipad area in level G. What a performance whore it is. It makes my hi-end computer sweat like a glass blower’s arse.

  1. “In the TOW yard’s new parking lot, consider shifting these handrails to eliminate these overhangs i.imgur.com/oMGMLMv.jpg” Yet another totally insignificant bug which can only be seen by noclipping. I don’t care how you justify it - if it can ONLY be seen via noclipping, it doesn’t matter in the slightest. No normal person will judge my work for errors which can’t be seen during normal play.

I disagree. In today’s highly competitive job market, I expect that a video game employer, in order to find the best possible candidate, certainly looks at the work done along a level’s beaten path. Extending that mindset to areas away from the beaten path is what gives one an edge.

  1. “In the TOW yard, consider removing the two angled support legs from this fence https://i.imgur.com/7CP3XET.jpg. The fence’s appearance would look much neater.” It’s part of the model. It cannot be removed. It’s kinda remarkable how much I have to tell you this. I can’t edit models. I’m not a modeller. REMEMBER THIS.

Bad wording on my part. My intent was for you to use a model version that didn’t have the two support legs. I suspect that if one did exist you’d have used it. What about using this fence model https://i.imgur.com/aVna5kI.jpg? Comes in a four-section version like the current fence. Is no barbed wire a deal breaker? Too tall? Clip it into the ground like the current one. Actually, security with the current fence can be easily defeated. All one needs to do is climb up on the adjacent large tank (it’s the same height as the fence) and jump over the fence. Must use the current model for all compound perimeter fencing? Meh. Who’d notice if you didn’t. :rolleyes:

Relating to requesting model replacements, models come in different sizes, lengths and colors. I know you’re not a modeler. It may sometimes appear that I am, but I’m actualy not asking you to model. I’m inquiring if an alternate model exists, that may better suit a scenario. I don’t know what model options are available. Also, I don’t know what the capabilities of the Propper tool are. Also, a model which you consider good may not appeal to others, hence the reason for the feedback. It’s a means to have you consider an alternative option/perspective, especially when there’s numerous requests to do so. In the end, I expect you’ve investigated the alternatives. However, again, it’s read, view, move on. No editor use, minimal time needed.

  1. “In the TOW yard, the right side of this upper military crate https://i.imgur.com/FCdIQH4.jpg is “floating” above the lower one…” Extraordinarily insignificant, and nearly unfixable due to the way the models are designed.

Which one is it, extraordinarily insignificant or nearly unfixable? Both? That’s not the case. The upper crate is a stand alone model, is it not? If so, then the issue is fixable. I’ve even told you how to fix it, although it’s not rocket science. Shift the upper crate a few inches to the right onto the other raised portion of the lower crate. Tada, issue fixed. Don’t want to fix it? Then extraordinarily insignificant is the real reason.

  1. Great to know. I’ll try and keep these points in mind going forward.

  2. “At the Heli yard, consider replacing these odd looking access hatches https://i.imgur.com/DDc8B61.jpg with the normal pebbled steel type, or possibly remove them altogether.” This is the standard hatch overlay used throughout Black Mesa. Sometimes it feels like you just make stuff up. They don’t look odd at all.

Yeah, they do. They really do. An obvious difference of opinion. Access hatches are important and should be easily visible. But they shouldn’t stick out like a sore thumb. In a clean and busy office scenario, use the ones that are camouflaged, but in an industrial/warehouse environment or an out of the way seldom traveled location (like a roof), gimme the color-matched good ol’ pebbled metal type. The real reason the camouflaged types are used, is to avoid the extra game coding that’s needed so that the player’s footstep sounds change to “metal-type” when walking or running over one. Save on resources. I can appreciate that.

  1. “In the Heli yard’s new offices, the amount of blue light emitted by the computer monitor with the BSOD is way too intense. Consider toning it down a lot.” Again, it just comes across as you making stuff up so you can have more points. The light is the exact same as the one found on C2A5F. It’s consistent. If I toned it down I reckon someone’ll have a go at me for it being inconsistent.

I’m reacting the same way others have (at least on two occasions). When I saw your screenshots prior to release, I thought “What’s up with that. A screenshot with texture issues”? There’s no way that in a large room with ambient daylight, that doors clear across the room from the BSOD monitor would have that amount of blue light on them. Even a trace of blue light is pushing it, but I’m reasonable. I simply asked that it be reduced. It’s overkill the way it is now, for the sake of having a cool visual effect, that’s easily visible. I’m all for cool visual effects. Where do I sign-up. I’m sorry, but it doesn’t work for me. I’m certain that even by toning it down (try halving it and see how it looks) you’ll still achieve the lighting mood you’re looking for. This isn’t overkill https://i.imgur.com/5ObLggi.jpg? Really?

  1. “In the Heli yard’s new offices, sufficiently raise the height of these electrical panels” This is an issue which is present throughout the entirety of Black Mesa, and it’s due to the way the model is designed. It’ll have to be lived with. It’s actually present in lots of Valve games too where they use this model. Besides, if the panels were higher, they wouldn’t be accessible for maintenance, and we know how much you don’t like that!

Raising them up to the ceiling will make them look considerably better than how they look now. You do want a better look, right, especially when it’s easy to attain. The hallway ceiling isn’t overly high, so they’ll be only slightly higher than they are now. And Black Mesa has ladders. I’m certain I’ve seen some. Unfortunately, I’ve found that they’re usually floating above the ground, but that’s another issue altogether that doesn’t concern you. Hey look! Here’s a ladder right next to the electrical panels that we’re talkin’ about https://i.imgur.com/xRl0r4N.jpg, but yours isn’t floating above the ground. @Text: Good work! :slight_smile:

  1. “In the Heli yard’s new offices, this office divider https://i.imgur.com/8CkYQFH.jpg hovers substantially above the other office equipment i.imgur.com/Ygez901.jpg” Physics. Interactions.

Well, seeing another pile of furniture which looked perfect, I thought you could do something about the one in my feedback.

There really shouldn’t be a reason to jump into the editor for the majority of my feedbacks. Actions, if any, can be easily determined by viewing the detailed screenshots. Again, it should be a simple process. Read the issue, view the detailed images, accept or reject, correct the issue or move on to the next one. Heck, I’m sure there have been occasions where you don’t even finish reading the issue, let alone view the screenshots. I highly doubt that there has been or will be a major amount of time used within the editor when my feedbacks are reviewed/considered. It doesn’t merit it, or is necessary or makes sense to do so.

Concerning my multiple feedback submissions for the same issue, it comes down to guarding them from falling through the cracks, coupled with your previous admissions of forgetfulness/oversights. God knows you’ve got a lot on your plate, both real life and gaming related. With that in mind, I want to ensure that each issue reaches your eyes for consideration. There was a time when you provided a response for each issue that was submitted. Understandably, those times are gone. Your projects have grown too large for that level of response to continue.

Relating to requesting model replacements, models come in different sizes, lengths and colors. I know you’re not a modeler. I’m not asking you to model. I’m inquiring if an alternate model exists, that may better suit a scenario. I don’t know what model asset options are available. Also, I don’t know what the capabilities of the Propper tool are. Also, a model which you consider good may not appeal to me/others, hence the reason for the feedback. It’s a means to have you consider an alternative option/perspective, especially when there’s numerous requests to do so. In the end, I expect you’ve investigated the alternatives. However, again, it’s read, view, move on. No editor use, minimal time needed.

Speaking of time, I’ve spent enough of it in formulating this response. Let me wrap this up. Please accept my apologies for the angst, consternation and the additional work that I’ve caused you. It certainly was not my intention to be more of a hindrance than a benefit to you. I’ll take your latest statements to heart and will endeavor to provide you with the more useful feedback, the kind that you’re looking for. It kinda pains me to do so, but you have spoken and I should (want to) cooperate. You’ve created something very special works here, and I’m grateful and cherish being a part of it. I enjoy our rapport and highly value our friendship and the working relationship we’ve established, and hope that it continues.

I’ll be momentarily concluding my feedback for ST Uncut v2.0 beta (save for one issue that I’ll submit separately) and look forward to your release of v2.0 final, and later on, the release of materials related to OaR Uncut.

Onwards and upwards! Continued best wishes for your ongoing project developments.

#2542

If it’s not too late, here’s my plan on reworking that nagging corner in the furnace room with the clipping rubble pieces (not removable as per Text), that you actually just reworked. I’ve noclipped so you/others can fully understand what I’m proposing. This rework assumes that the changes won’t cause an increase to system resources. There’s one large pipe that needs to be added. The rest are assets already in the map:

  1. This is the problem area in question https://i.imgur.com/FH5mk4X.jpg
  2. Move the two white cylinders temporarily off to the right, where they’ll eventually end up. This eliminates one of them from clipping into the large vertical pipe https://i.imgur.com/QlXzDzB.jpg
  3. Here’s that nagging metal rod piece of rubble that clips through the wall from the Tank yard https://i.imgur.com/RGQrpK3.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/Sq3SgIe.jpg.
  4. There’s also this rubble piece to the right of the pipe https://i.imgur.com/KxajIXq.jpg that clips through the wall and clips into the right side of the pipe. The existing pipe can’t be moved, as it passes through the ceiling into a playable area above. The other small white piece on the left side of the pipe is a foot from the clipping white cylinder.
  5. Move one of these Spill-Safe units https://i.imgur.com/asTOpGF.jpg the way it’s oriented now, over to the left wall, so that its left side is up against the wall and it’s back is up against the large vertical pipe. This will clip into and obscure the majority of the metal rod. Alternately, the back of the Spill-Safe unit could be placed up against the wall, and its side placed up against the front of the pipe, whichever method conceals the metal rod best.
  6. Add a new large vertical pipe, identical to the existing one, and place it up against the right side of the existing pipe. Its position should be dictated by covering up the remaining visible part of the metal rod.
  7. Position the two white cylinders up against the wall and to the right of the newly added pipe. This will conceal the rubble piece that clips through the wall and into the pipe. Ensure that the cylinders have an appreciable space between them.

Thanks for your consideration, Text. If you pursue this, I hope it works out like I envisioned it to.

#2543

I really don’t know how Text hasn’t shot himself in the face having to read all that stuff multiple times.

Edit: To be slightly on topic. Looking forward to V2 full release and video. Reading the changelog got me really excited. :smiley:

#2544

holy fucking shit dadster, are you autistic? i have an autistic friend, he wouldn’t be as crazy as that

give it a rest

it’s a waste of text’s time because he has to sift through your posts weeding out the useful feedback from the useless, even though people have tried to explain to you that some of your feedback is not useful at all

#2545

He is just over critical… ok I can’t defend him. seeing as he keeps saying things must be realistic, which is BS game play is king not realism. (something modern games need to relearn)

#2546

He is either doing it on purpose, case in which he deserves to be banned, or has a mental disorder, case in which it’s not his fault. But even people with retardation should try their best to manage themselves.

#2547

Guys, lets try not to come up with "mental disorder"s. That doesn’t help anyone and might just lead to some people feeling insulted.
If you don’t like the posts of a specific user, then just ignore them.

#2548

Dadster is right and Text is right!

It’s good Dadster shows us bugs, but Text is a one man army who’s not paid to do this, it’s all in the spare time he has. No he has limited time to do this, I’m happy with the maps, maybe some major bugs and visuals have to be fixed, but not the tiny things…

But Dadster should be a pro tester at a gaming company and we receive games almost bugfree! I think that’s the perfect job for him!

In the past, a long time time ago, EA asked for pro testers …

#2549

Holy shit, this has to be the most egotistical response I have ever read on these forums. You’re basically saying “Fuck you, I don’t care about what you read, I am still going to do what I want.”

You claim to be an efficient guy. Fine, let’s run with that. Don’t you think it’s more efficient NOT to register clipping issues / safety inspection? You know full well that any issue with the word “clipping” is going to be straight up rejected by Test without further consideration. Therefore, wouldn’t it follow that both you and Text are wasting time dealing with them? Why even post them? Do you not understand how ridiculous your issue reports look? I’ve been going through the BMSCD bug tracker to fix programming bugs. I’ve had to sift through a ton of your useless bug reports. SPOILERS: I get maybe 1-2 useful reports out of the 100+ you’ve posted so far.

Why don’t you get this? If YOU KNOW AN ISSUE WILL BE REJECTED, DON’T POST IT. This is like the simplest concept in the world. I’m not trying to be an asshole here. I think with proper guidance, you would make a good bug reporter. The problem is, you’re so focused on visual quality that you completely ignore the gameplay aspect which is what Text is really interested in. I think a huge reason for this is because you’ve never made games in your life. You’ve never had to deal with how inconsistent hammer can be. Let me teach you a lesson: Games are inherently imperfect creatures. You would probably soil your pants with bug reports if you knew how many technical tricks we’ve had to pull to present something visually.

He’d be fired within a week for not understanding that clipping objects aren’t bugs, they’re normal.

I am going to summarize this for you since you like to insert your own conclusions. This time, the only conclusions you’re going to draw are the following:

Consider the above my bug report for your entire feedback process.

#2550

Listen: noclip is a tool primarily for developers that is accessible from the game for convenience. It is not part of the game experience. There is the level’s beaten path and the level’s unbeaten path, and then there’s not part of the level at all.

Filling in detail that is not in any way accessible through gameplay doesn’t give one an edge, it’s actually a sign of incompetence – professional game developers put a lot of effort into optimizing it so that it doesn’t process any more level information than necessary, and the maverick “noclip mapper” would be undoing that effort and become a liability to the team.

#2551

Don’t bother. Your post will fall on the deaf ears of an individual who has never made games in his life. Note the use of weasel words like “I expect” when referring to the game industry in any fashion. The truth is, you’re absolutely right.

@Text: I am sorry for derailing your thread but I didn’t want to see you go through the same bullshit we went through in the feedback thread. Clearly my attempts here failed.

#2552

Sorry mate, neither of those things are going to change.

Changing the HECU’s AI behaviour would require a dramatic rebalancing of all the battles, as well as introducing lots and lots of logical entity constraints to limit their behaviour to be less stupid. What you see the HECU do in my maps is basically what their AI tells them to do. They always run in like that by default. I just changed their paths so that they run into cover, instead of running straight towards the open arms of the aliens. Plus it’s kinda for dramatic effect anyway.

As for the wall, I think that area looks way way cooler with it than without it. That’s pretty much the only reason it’s there. I know it doesn’t serve much of a functional purpose. In addition, the building behind it isn’t actually detailed at all, I’d have to detail up the building and its surroundings which would make the maps even more demanding and also probably be a fair amount of work. IN ADDITION, if you look at the concrete building by the end of the wall with the spinning radar dish on top of it, you’ll see it has no back end either! I’d have to make that too.

That’s interesting. I’m pretty sure my specs theory has been shot out the window anyway, everyone with problems has so far reported shit hot specs.

I’ll put out the video with the Release Candidate, which will be released I’m not sure when, but most probably tomorrow afternoon. I was pretty much ready to release today but I got invited out about 2 hours ago and I’m gonna be busy the whole evening. There’s nothing major left to do now, provided the crashing has been fixed, which I strongly hope it has.

Onto less pleasant business…

One final word on this whole deal with Dadster. I really want this to be the last thing I say on this whole business.

I wrote this post a little bit earlier but did not post it because I wanted to see the situation unfold. I’m somewhat pleased that I’m far from the only person with my stance on the feedback.

This part is directly for you, Dadster.

The whole upshot of this is Dadster, both I AND THE BLACK MESA DEVS, have told you the same thing - that the sheer amount of feedback which isn’t useful wastes our time because we have spend time weeding out the useless stuff, as Bur says. I spend more time trying to figure out what’s useless in your posts than I do actually fixing the useful stuff. Useful stuff is there. But it’s not the bulk of the posts, and that shouldn’t be happening.

Both I and the BM Devs have made this claim to you on multiple occasions, to which you have replied with the equivalent of “No it doesn’t! It’s a really concise and time efficient process”.

So, either me and the Black Mesa Dev team are both lazy and/or liars, or we share a similar perspective on the truth. Consider that, and remember that you actually got banned for it.

I mentioned the whole wasting your own time thing (to which you staunchly defended your own position) because by this point I believe you genuinely don’t care about wasting other peoples’ time, effort and motivation. I was hoping that a more personal approach might have done the trick. Evidently not.

I appreciate where you’re coming from. In an ideal world all of your complaints would be addressed, and ST Uncut and the whole of Black Mesa would be perfect everywhere - gameplay, realism, design, realistic design, no clipping, no floating, no weird shadows, absolutely nothing. All developers, myself included, would be happy fixing all of these little issues and nothing would ever go wrong.

This ain’t no ideal world though. The Source engine is a fickle mistress, the Hammer editor is a bitch, and I’m currently choosing unemployment and working on these projects over finding a job with my newly earned degree. I have different priorities to you, and I would have hoped that after nearly 2/3s of a year working with me, you might have figured it out. My perspective on level design is different to yours. As has been said a few times now, gameplay is king. I wouldn’t say your complaints are invalid per se, rather they’re not really important to a designer with limited time, ability and resources, such as myself, and most of them probably wouldn’t even be that important to AAA studios. Though it may sound bizarre and unlikely to you, my stance on level/game design is actually the DEFAULT/MAJORITY stance, not to mention the most pragmatic.

I rather resent in your previous post the implications that I am an incompetent mapper, of which there were a few. I suggest you fire up the Hammer editor and start trying to make stuff of your own - then you’ll see just how damn difficult it is to get things good, let alone perfect. I work fucking hard on this stuff. I’m pretty good at it. Not the best, not by a long shot. But I’m one guy, working on an exceptionally large project trying to reach an extraordinarily high bar set by the talented BM Devs. This has all been said before. My job isn’t easy, I don’t appreciate it being made harder either, even if it is being done with good intentions.

I’ve been extremely patient for far too long. I’ve laid down my stance, and you’ve read it. You’ve said you’ll take it to heart, please do so. I still doubt you understand even slightly the reasons why we have to say these things to you, but either way works. I would very much appreciate it if we did not have to call off this little “working relationship,” as you described it, as I’m sure you would too. But your feedback can’t go on the way it has been, if I am to retain my sanity and excitement in doing my job. As I’ve said, if you don’t change the way you deliver feedback, and the content, it can’t go on. Please get this.

Don’t worry about derailing the thread. It’s an issue which needs to be addressed. I’m glad another dev is with me on this, I know you’ve struggled with this issue before as well.

#2553

With all that said, Dadster:

Consider both my post and Text’s post as your final warning. We’ve been incredibly patient with you. You are on thin ice. Don’t expect to come back if you reply with anything other than “I understand.” Nobody here should have to treat you like a child but alas, stern warnings and a permanent timeout are what we’re going to have to resort to if this continues.

We want this forum to foster discussion and development. We are all united in our goal to make Black Mesa the best Half-Life 2 mod possible. This much I think everyone (including Dadster) can agree on. But there is a time, place and method to doing this. Deviations from this tried and proven method only slows things down. We are all doing this stuff in our free time. The last thing we need is to be slowed in our forward progress. For your (Dadster)'s sake and Text’s sake, just listen and follow the instructions provided and I promise that everyone (on the BM Team at least) will do their best to address your concerns.

#2554

On a completely different side note, what causes physics props to move around the world like in zero-g, because I was halfway through H when it started to do that. I think I had this happen before but there was simple fix for and I don’t remember. (And no I was not using and old save game). It dident start till I downloaded this new version, does overwriting the old files with the new cause any problems?

#2555

No. That’s a bug with the engine, you’d need to restart the client for the bug to be “fixed.” It’d happen on any client on any map. Not just his.

#2556

small thing I noted, there is a chair near the hound eyes that seems to act strangely when hit by their attacks (it floats)… I only got this to happen one time, but I don’t know if its a bug on the map or just a random thing that happened.

#2557

I guess Text already could release the new RC if he didn’t have to read all this things and reply to them. (Bugposting not included!)

#2558

I have to be careful about what I post here but as long as I don’t get into specifics, I should be okay.

My full time job is testing video games before they come to market. I know that there are things that are bugs and things that are not bugs, things that developers are going to fix and things they’re not going to bother fixing. I know that if you have to noclip to even see a bug, it’s not a bug; it’s a conceit used to accomplish a goal that the player will never see during any normal playthrough.

With my experience with actual professional game developers, I know that both Text and the Black Mesa devs do very similar. I have not played through Black Mesa or the associated fan additions by Text to search for bugs and I’m sure if I did I could report them, but there are some things that are just so minor that I wouldn’t report them.

Just so you know, in my job, if you continue to submit things that you know are going to be rejected, the business will not look kindly…on you. You already know these issues will be rejected and if you continue to do that, you’re just wasting both your time and the developers’ time. Move on.

“And that’s all I have to say about that.” --Forrest Gump

#2559

Hi, Text.
First, I want to congratulate you for this new version. I never though you could improve a map which was almost perfect. Sir, you surprise me !
So I played your beta and noticed a few bugs.
Some are maybe already spotted and I’m sorry if this is the case : I’m quite busy at the moment and I didn’t read all the topic, I just know there is some crashes that i don’t encountered.

C2A5G

C2A5H

C2A5I

That’s the end. You did a very good job for sounds and captions.
Thank you !

#2560

This sound like a fucking incredible job.

I don’t personally think it would require any rebalancing. I’ve played the mod dozens of times, and probably only seen the Marines win the helipad battle twice, and the street batter never. As for the AI, I didn’t know. Looking at their behavior, I thought it was an ai_goal_assault, due to how they ran right to the middle of the map and died. Maybe giving them a defensive ai behavior would help then? Seems to work in B2.

That’s understandable. I thought it would look better without, and it doesn’t make much sense I don’t think. But you’re the boss!

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.