Surface Tension Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

Lengthy post… I will only comment on relevant topics.

Different players have different play styles. Some of us use the shotgun quite often to nail Agrunts and the MP5 to take on regular grunts. You’d have MP5/Glock ammo maxed anyway due to the amount of grunts (if you used the RPG instead of the TAU) you took on in the last set.

He has no control over when the health kits drop. That is part of the internal code. If they player needs health, it’ll drop an actual healthkit, not a vial (25 health given vs 10 health; they use the same model for some reason).

The health positioning is fine as I said so many times before… I hate to disagree with you, but here I’m going to put my foot down and say no.

There’s no need to remove the thing, some of the other players may be heavily weakened by having to deal with a horde of vorts at the beginning of the level, then taking on a few agrunts after. Your post also disregards the fact that some players may back track to restock on health or ammunition if they decided to leave it there.

This I do agree with.

… you have a point, but in reality, who in their right mind would waste all the missiles…? I’m not disagreeing with you here, but still.

Move the turret farther back. Although the player had to deal with 4 agrunts previously, that area’s really begging to have an alien fight for the player thrown into it. That is my opinion on the matter.

Have a trio of alien grunts pop up around the LAV after it zooms out and the soldiers spread out. I would suggest lessening the alien forces by a few to compensate.

Generally, with my custom config (and the default one) I’m left dealing with 2 hgrunts and the LAV after the entire fight’s over if I stay out of it. The 3 agrunts popping up allows them to melee the thing so if one of them gets nailed by the LAV the other two can kill it with no problem. This throws the balance out of whack however… dynamic reinforcements?

Replace one of the guys at the top of the osprey helipad with a medic or two. It would be a logical point to carry the wounded too.

About that particular section, after the aliens are done wiping out the HECU have them dispawn with another teleport effect.

The zombie remains, it just starts wandering around inside the room the script stops at the map change for some reason, as he stops banging on the glass. I say just get rid of the script and let it spot you while it wanders around inside the security office.

Additionally, if the vort with the scripted sequence (scanning the body) sees you, you break the scripted sequence.

If you can spare it, this would also be a good off-to-the-side area for players to explore. Not saying there needs to be goodies in there though… maybe a headcrab or two for the player to deal with.

Better idea would be to move them to the right-hand wall in the corner (that door is technically a fire exit, by law you can’t have anything near it), to reinforce the idea, make it a stack of crates.

Listen closely to the combat sounds going on outside. It’s not an air strike, it’s a RPG round being fired. Makes sense.

You’re in the middle of a war zone. There would be trash and other debris scattered across the sidewalks.

Refer to above.

Each time it stayed for me, if you give some clues as to why the bug may occur (take down the steps you do before you enter the gasworks and after, and establish a time line, it’d be a good place to start).

You have an armor charger at the end of the level inside of the security office. There’s no need for it. If you DO go through with this, reduce the charger to 50 armor.

To hijack the topic, the roof area there, I would love if you could turn it into a jumping puzzle of some sort for the player to get to a stash in the steel beam overhang of the gasworks. That is if you can do it. Another recommendation would be to move the medkits you get on the crate (or at least one) onto a platform along with another battery & a satchel or tripmine.

Or just rotate the apache 180 degrees to go with 2)?

W/regards to ammo/health balance, I’m going to assume that the points you made were based on a playthrough w/the normal skill.cfg because otherwise they’d be kinda moot.

[COLOR=‘Yellow’]Different players have different play styles. Some of us use the shotgun quite often to nail Agrunts and the MP5 to take on regular grunts. You’d have MP5/Glock ammo maxed anyway due to the amount of grunts (if you used the RPG instead of the TAU) you took on in the last set.

-Of course. My settings are not absolute but they are a very good example for testing C2A5G-I. The last battle in C2A5F is the Abrahms and the player is given a health and battery charger nearby. Thus, they will fight at 100/75. Assuming they don’t play stupid, they will have ~100/15ish going into C2A5G. The only thing I am a sticker on is having the Tau at ~60. This is a powerful weapon so most players use it frequently. It was evident even on my very first playthrough that the RPG/TOW is inferior to Tau for vehicle killing. The rest of the weapons can be set at 80%, 100%, w/e because of the armory…I just simplified the values. It’s just that Text undercut the ammo unrealistically in several weapons and forgot the explosives.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]The health positioning is fine as I said so many times before… I hate to disagree with you, but here I’m going to put my foot down and say no.

There’s no need to remove the thing, some of the other players may be heavily weakened by having to deal with a horde of vorts at the beginning of the level, then taking on a few agrunts after. Your post also disregards the fact that some players may back track to restock on health or ammunition if they decided to leave it there.

-Assuming the player plays through C2A5F, there are 2 health kits at the .50 cal. When using the .50 cal, the player is stationary and can’t touch the kits so they just soak up damage. After all vorts are dead, the player touches the kits and bam, they’re at ~100/30 (w/the 2 batteries). This is why the lower medkit is bad…it’s not given when the player really needs it. I’m not necessarily rooting for it to be deleted as I think swapping it for a battery is the best choice. At this point, it’s impossible to have 100 battery, so this change benefits you at w/e .cfg you choose to play as well as all nubs playing the default .cfg. Also, if there’s a battery in place of the medkit, there would be no need to backtrack period which is good gameplay wise.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]Move the turret farther back. Although the player had to deal with 4 agrunts previously, that area’s really begging to have an alien fight for the player thrown into it. That is my opinion on the matter.

-If by this you mean back in the TOW courtyard, there’s already one there and there’s already a shit ton of explosives to blow the Agrunts to oblivion. Keep in mind too that BMS turrets suck because they backfire on the player (unlike in HL2), so the more turrets you have to place, the more likely they are to backfire. As you say, different players have different playstyles. No one will force you to use the sentry in the LAV courtyard, but given it’s limited ammo, placing it there will give the player far more control over what it targets which again is smart. The cover here is poor compared to the TOW courtyard so the extra firepower is really helpful.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]About that particular section, after the aliens are done wiping out the HECU have them dispawn with another teleport effect.

-If by dispawn, you mean despawn as in disappear, it would look cool but would be completely inconsistent w/BMS and HL as there is no precedence for this. As far as we know, Xen teleportation is only unidirectional.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]The zombie remains, it just starts wandering around inside the room the script stops at the map change for some reason, as he stops banging on the glass. I say just get rid of the script and let it spot you while it wanders around inside the security office.

-It does not. I just retested it. Also the camera is still gone.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]Additionally, if the vort with the scripted sequence (scanning the body) sees you, you break the scripted sequence.

-Hopefully you think this is good, as the vort would look really stupid if it didn’t respond to you.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]Listen closely to the combat sounds going on outside. It’s not an air strike, it’s a RPG round being fired. Makes sense.

-The sound here is different from previous versions. If this is what Text intended, then ya I’d keep the RPG by the marine but delete one rocket in the rooftop, as the player is already maxed/near-maxed from C2A5G.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]You’re in the middle of a war zone. There would be trash and other debris scattered across the sidewalks.

-It’s not that kind of debris. The sidewalk debris look like fast food containers/candy wrappers on the ground.

[COLOR=‘yellow’]Each time it stayed for me, if you give some clues as to why the bug may occur (take down the steps you do before you enter the gasworks and after, and establish a time line, it’d be a good place to start).

-Was fine when I just retested. It happened from using quicksave loads…I’m fairly sure these quicksaves didn’t involve noclip but can’t be certain. Can anyone verify the tank disappearance?

[COLOR=‘yellow’]You have an armor charger at the end of the level inside of the security office. There’s no need for it. If you DO go through with this, reduce the charger to 50 armor.

-There IS a need for it here as the armor charger is given too LATE to be of any help whatsoever in the gasworks. This was actually the most unforgiving section for me now. The opening aliens and the spawns do tremendous damage if the player is holding the wrong weapon and/or is unfamiliar w/this area. Combine that w/fall damage from the steam puzzle, environmental damage and a nasty (but awesome) sentry and you’ll be depleted of health/battery in no time. There’s no need to reduce the charger to 50 (though I wouldn’t object to the change) as all battery life and some health will be depleted by the time the player gets to it. Plus, there is no realistic way to have wasteful batteries (e.g. player at 100 battery already) unless the player wants to play like a cheapass and quicksave every 10 sec…and the battery life is good for FaF prep. The opening alien ambush can be extremely damaging w/o using the autoturret.

c2a5g
-Cracks on the wall after the explosive room appear illuminated through the smoke, but fine after the smoke has cleared

c2a5h
-glass shards still black, hand dryer metal black, explosive barrel on the roof is black
-Security guard presses the button near the roller door even if the player presses it before him

c2a5i
none

I’ll reply with regards to the debate here between Wangman and Chickenprotector first, then Wangman I’ll move on to some of the points you raised.

The ammo/health balance at the beginning of C2A5G is pretty balanced the way I play the game, but that’s because I don’t use heavy weapons on Alien Grunts. I often find myself entering C2A5G with half ammo for most main weapons, and 50ish health. I would have thought most players would. You have the entire destroyed building on C2A5F to trawl through in addition to the infinite Osprey battle, and a tank. I’m not sure it’s too realistic to expect the player to enter C2A5G on full health with nearly full weapons. This is why I’ve placed a large deal of healthpacks - contrary to what you’ve been saying, I think too many healthpacks is fine as long as my intention is to keep the player at high health, which it is. This is particularly true of the rooftop sniper bit, where you say I should remove 1 of the 2 healthkits. If a player is on low health when they do the Satchel Pipe scene, they will get repeatedly pummeled by the guy after he comes back to check you are dead. He could 1 - 2 hit them while they’re trying to climb out of the pipe awkwardly. It’s kinder to let them at least have 30 or so health for that bit, I think.

I will move the turret to a more obvious location. It will probably help the player if the balance gets borked and the player ends up facing a horde of bad guys.

On the subject of despawning, though it would be nice to give an impression of a co-ordinated attack throughout Black Mesa, it would be highly inconsistent with anything that happens during Black Mesa, so it’s a bit of a no-no I’m afraid.

On the Zombie/Camera, those are both carried across from C2A5G to C2A5H, contained within the trigger_transition. This is why they don’t appear if you load into C2A5H directly. I don’t view this as much of a problem. The Zombie stops banging on the glass and starts wandering around, which looks fine to me, and the camera looks just fine. If they DISAPPEAR during the transition for you, then something’s wrong.

As for the Regret Vort’s animation being interrupted, I actually spent quite a while designing that scene to allow it to happen, so how you can think that’s a bad thing I find a tad confusing. In the very first iteration of that scene, you could jump on his head and teabag, shoot him, run in front of him and he wouldn’t care. I had to use the I/O system to make him: 1) react to the player getting too close 2) react to the player shooting near him 3) react to the player entering his LOS.

As for the RPG round breaking the wall, I used the exact sound from Black Mesa’s RPG round, and I haven’t changed anything to do with it since 0.8. Near the 50cal is a dead Marine with an RPG, and there’s an RPG marine also dead on the rooftop. Either one of them could have been the source of the RPG.

I’ve noticed Wangman, that you have a tendency to notice things in my maps which I haven’t changed for many versions, and then blame it on a change from a previous version, which I find strange. For example, you say I should revert the sidewalk to its 0.81b appearance which looked better, because it didn’t have all the rubbish on it. The rubbish is part of the texture itself, and has been present on that road literally since I first blocked out that section. Look here. You’ve done this with a lot of things which I’ll point out later, but I’ll assume that it’s just because you didn’t notice those things before and you just associated it with a change, rather than the fact you didn’t notice it before. I will probably change it though - you’re right, it doesn’t look that good. You also did the same with the Apache in the gasworks, which I literally haven’t touched since 0.80b.

I’ve never seen the Abrams debris disappearing but I’m guessing it is either a loading/saving bug or a problem with your computer? Is it lower spec? Lower spec rigs might delete debris from save games or something to make the game load and run better, or something like that.

I’ll put some batteries in the janitor’s closet. You’re right, the first fight in the gasworks can be a little brutal.

Okay, onto some of the points that Wangman raised which Chickenprotector didn’t object to:


Most of your objections to design elements in my car parks are fair ones. I will work to address them. The parking bays are consistently spaced relative to one another from level to level. They are a little disjointed with one another on opposite sides which I can rectify, but your objection to the pillars and the spacing of the parking spaces is nitpicking at its finest, and something with 99% of players will not pick up, or care about. As for me using the stripes to denote parking spaces, this is consistent with Black Mesa. They do that too. Look at the last map of QE, or THEIR version of C2A5G, they both use those stripes. The texture for that stripe is actually made by the BM devs, and is named csrev_parkingx. As for colours of the roads being different, they all use the EXACT same texture. The differences in colour are a result of lighting. Aligning the lightmaps a bit better might help, and increasing the luxel count probably will to, but aside from that…eh. Lightmap optimization is still something I need to do, actually.

As for the player using up the TOW missiles, is that REALLY a problem? There’s NOTHING to fight with the TOW before you break the door, it’s very damn obvious you have to break the door. Even my 57 year old Dad, who I showed this map to the other day, figured it out, and he doesn’t even play video games. A player who runs out of TOW missiles would either be so unbelievably stupid that you’d wonder how they’ve got this far in life, or they’re deliberately trying to fail, neither of which are eventualities I feel I need to safeguard against!

On the LAV in the helipad, having a contingent of Agrunts show up specifically with the purpose of attacking the tank side-on is a very nice idea which I hadn’t previously considered. I will implement that and see how it turns out. It should work fine given I will now provide the player with the turret in an easier location, and also given the fact I will bias a bit of the initial fight more towards the HECU now.

As for the Abrams battle, I probably won’t rebalance it anymore, though your suggestions wouldn’t help. Having the Aliens in melee range BENEFITS the HECU due to the flinch effect of their MP5s. The Grunts try to melee repeatedly and have each attempt interrupted by the flinch from the MP5 shot, resulting in the HECU winning easily without the Aliens landing a blow. The distance is better for the Aliens as it forces them to use their weapons. Having the rooftop Agrunt spawn earlier seriously biased the fight in favour of the aliens, and having them on the opposite roof gives them a seriously limited view.

The explosive barrels on the roof, I don’t understand your serious objection to this. I think you’re assuming everyone is stupid. A player isn’t going to go “oh no, he shot an explosive barrel, I’d better not use any barrels for cover ever again”. They’re going to think “oh, I should shoot these before he does when I’m near them,” or “oh, I’ll only use the regular ones for cover”. It works fine. It adds variety to the Sniper encounter. However, I agree the barrels appearance isn’t great, and I’ll switch them for crates. That should help things a bit. As for a demonstration - do you REALLY need a demonstration to show you that the explosive crate will kill you if he shoots it? I don’t think anyone’s that dumb, and like I said, my 56 year old Dad could figure it out, and he doesn’t play video games.

On C2A5I I was sure I’d fixed the script from triggering before the player drops down. I’ll look into it…again.

That’s it. Now look, if you’ve been repeating some minor complaints since 0.8’s release (such as the background on C2A5G being too orange which is a completely bizzaro objection, seeing as I’ve used the same textures that have been used throughout ST), I’m probably not going to address them. Repeat them, by all means, but bear that in mind. It’s a lot of effort to reply to all of them, so just remember that. Still, thanks, as ever, for your copious amounts of detailed feedback. It all helps. Hopefully new version by Thursday.

Just got a small suggestion to do with the fight you can see on the security station monitor in the gasworks…

I actually found myself looking around to see where I was being shot from until I noticed it was on the screen. The battle sounds just feel a little too present. Maybe running them through some filter or just reducing the volume would make it sound more like the battle is being relayed through the small speakers, instead of feeling like it’s happening just a few meters away.

I did play through at least once with the default.cfg settings. Things get too easy for me after that… even on hard. But I’m not here to discuss how I play.

You’ve brought up some valid points, I’ll respond to the ones I think need a little more iteration on my part.

I tend to use the TOW on C2A5F to take out the tank. TAU is for the Osprey. I don’t disagree that it is a far superior weapon. In the last few times I’ve played through C2A5F I tend to take the time (little over an hour) to carry all the medical supplies, batteries, and Uranium to that hole where you drop down to make the osprey spawn (finally). But that point is moot because most players wouldn’t take the time to do that. All I’m saying is that it’s largely dynamic in terms of ammunition values. In one instance the player may have full ammunition for everything (or in my case full on everything and no MP5 nades, agrunts tend to eat them >.<) and 100/75 (unlikely) in another instance the player may have 100/15 as you suggested.

No. I was referring to the road which the player enters after the TOW scene. A few aliens teleport in after crossing a trigger point of some sort and the player needs to eliminate those. Be it AGrunts, vorts, bullsquids, or something of that sort.

Fair enough. I don’t know if it’s cannon but I did find this in the half-life wiki:

Not saying it should be done, but let me ask: Is there any other situation where you can think of the aliens (the intelligent ones) being able to teleport out after an enemy force is wiped from the map? They may have had an objective there that required them to stay. It’s speculation, but it makes sense.

There’s also the case in Opposing Force although some of the game, not being cannon, the Alien Slaves did do that on the mortar map. Teleporting in then rushing a few feet before teleporting back out (and then behind the player).

I just feel them standing there after they’ve eliminated the marines is a bit questionable… perhaps have them move off-camera after everything’s said and done.

Lol, looks like you don’t hornet gun much…if you did, you can actually have full EVERYTHING except RPG and/or Tau (because of Osprey/Abrahms) and that’s actually very realistic. In any case, the current ammo layout is fine. You just gotta add back the satchel and trip mine as these have been picked up by the player in the armory (3/5 and up would be reasonable). I’m surprised that you started the player at 100/60 though if you thought they’d come into C2A5G at ~50/0. In any case, don’t change this setting as it’s equivalent to 100/15 if you factor in the absent medkits.

Regarding your health placement in early C2A5G, if that’s your intention to load up the player on health that’s perfectly fine. What I’m actually saying is that you can do this BETTER if you swapped the medkit/battery at the zombie ambush with 2 batteries instead. This is because that first medkit is potentially wasteful because the player realistically can come into the garage at 100/30 whereas a second battery is NEVER wasteful because you cannot have 100 battery. Thus, you actually load up the player BETTER on health (or health equivalents) than w/a medkit which accomplishes your stated goal but is also UNIVERSALLY beneficial rather than circumstantially beneficial. Simply put, if the player is high on health, load them up on battery instead. This isn’t even Valve philosophy, it’s common sense. If you do this, the other two medkits prior to the vent drop do NOT become wasteful at all.

As a side note, I really do think you should decrease that car shop dispenser to 50 though for the reasons I mentioned before. I originally suggested that it be raised to 75 but after repeat testing, 50 is best.

Gameplay wise, the second medkit on the sniper rooftop is fine as it’s really close to the areas where you’ll take decent damage. The problem then becomes the EXCESS of medkits at the .50 cal, as there’s 3 now w/the new medic PLUS 2 batteries! This is really too much considering that there’s only 2 zombies, some snarks (which kill themselves off no less) and 3 headcrabs between this area and ANOTHER 2 medkits, don’t you think? Realistically, at least 1 medkit has to go and while positioning wise, having 2 medkits on the roof is ideal, this area is really hard to find (took me a few tries) so the player may miss it. That’s why I thought the deletion should happen at the rooftop rather than at the .50 cal.

I’m certain you did change the sound. In previous versions, there was something akin to a jet flying by or an Abrahms charge up just prior to the explosion which is not here now. That’s why I kept thinking it was an airstrike.

It’s true I sometimes pick up new things that I may have missed in previous patches (e.g. the LAV courtyard suggestions) but sometimes I also wait to bring up issues until others complain about it, like the garage vending machines. Part of the confusion stems from the fact that not every change you make is noted in the change log. For instance, you recently adjusted the triangular decal in the TOW courtyard and moved that cactus in the small garden (finally). I only noticed the sidewalk because you renovated the area so I decided to look more carefully. In any case, glad you’re looking into it.

Regarding the Apache, you DID change it. In 0.80, only the Apache’s head protruded through the rooftop. In subsequent versions, you pushed more of it into the building, which created the overextension/unfeasible positioning problem. It’s not in your change log but I’m surprised you forgot about it.

It’s moderate-fairly low spec ~2.3 gig dual core, 4 gig RAM, dual video card laptop. Don’t worry bout the tank if no one else reports it.

Regarding the pillars and parking space placement, it wasn’t something I intentionally sought out but once you see it, it really sticks out and makes you look for it elsewhere. It’s like in FaF where the road becomes disjointed at the very end. You may not notice it at first, but once you do, you can’t help but think “Oh that looks really stupid…I bet the person designing this area didn’t pick up on it till it was too late and just though, ‘Oh shit.’” You may call it a nitpick, but I think it’s actually one of the major issues in the garage because it’s PERVASIVE on all floors. If I had to prioritize my aesthetic suggestions in the parking lot, it would be as follows 1) match all road colors w/lighting adjustments 2) fix the nasty road disjoint on floor 2 w/debris 3) realigning the columns/parking spaces. All of my other suggestions are just icing on the cake and would make the mod that much better but aren’t really necessary. As for the stripes, if it’s consistent w/BMS, so be it.

The only reason I picked up on this was because you followed that guy’s suggestion to make the M35 destructible so it’s really his damn fault. After I blew it up, I tried to blow up the other vehicle nearby. When that didn’t work, I just went TOW happy and screwed myself. All kidding aside, this really IS a gamebreaking issue. As stupid as everyone (myself included) thinks this is, no one (till you) has explicitly said “No you shouldn’t fix it.” The bottom line is that if it’s not addressed, it would represent an oversight by you, as it’s a serious design flaw to forever trap a player w/in a section.

After thinking it over, I think Bur’s suggestion is much better (and easier to implement) than having an Agrunt bust down the door. The player should be punished for his stupidity, not let off the hook. Have a failure message appear, something like “Assessment terminated: subject failed to preserve mission critical assets.” Think there was one similar to this in HL2 or an expansion if you drove the buggy off a cliff but jumped out yourself. In any case, try to find the existing message before coming up w/one yourself.

You misread the suggestion regarding the melee. I was actually saying that you should INCREASE the distance between the aliens and HECU. In any case don’t worry about it as the balance is acceptable.

The issue here is that the shiny explosive barrels look too much like normal barrels, especially the gray ones and you also provided ZERO indication that they were explosive (e.g. player does not see the flammable logo, and even if you rotated the barrels, you still cannot see the logo in the far barrel because of the pipe). You think the explosive barrels are obvious because you’ve already played through the game. Remember, they are not encountered until LC so this WOULD discourage using barrels for cover.

It’s good that you’re going to use crates now because it bypasses the familiarity issue…the red/black ones have been encountered since Power Up and the different shape of the crates makes it easy to distinguish what’s dangerous and what’s not. As for the demonstration…I think it would be helpful as this is in line’s w/Valve’s policy of gradually introducing new enemies/mechanics. We’ve never seen a sniper do what your guy does. If you do decide on the demo, the 2 crates can be positioned where the explosive barrels are currently…just add the 3rd demo crate closer to the player. Also, don’t forget to place the regular barrels closer to the player. This is a good nudge to get them to pick them up and use them for cover.

The minor complaints are meant more as a checklist so it’s fine that you don’t address them (although you often do, like w/that obnoxious TOW courtyard cactus and soundscaping FaF). As for the orange background thing…I find that amusing as I removed the complaint after playing through FaF because I realized it was the same texture.

Aha yeah the nit picks are getting down to the very small things now. Clearly a sign of the maps being near completion if you ask me.

About the cameras not facing the correct angle for the screen later (I dunno if they are or aren’t) the camera outside the gasworks area rotates from one side to the other when you go near it. I always thought this was neat and maybe you could make all of the other cameras do this as well? This gives the impression that they are activated to turn by motion or sound.

The only issue I have with the apache in the gasworks ceiling is that I really never noticed it until you pointed it out in one of your videos. This is okay if you want to just leave it for the observant player, but maybe you could put little balls of flame occasionally dripping down from it to the floor as it’s still on fire. Could be cool if it looks natural and would draw the players eye.

I also agree that the three osprey should be going overhead from the hole in the wall you came out of toward the 50cal (or vice versa) as they are hard to spot at all now and this is with knowing it was going to happen and looking for them. Also it would give the effect that the soldiers are either going to or leaving the direction that you’re heading next.

Please don’t change the explosive barrels. I thought it was pretty obvious what those were and if you somehow don’t notice and he shoots it and it kills you it’s actually a very cool thing. Also who the heck would have carried crates full of explosives onto that roof? This is one spot where I think it’s actually OK to not have the game give you glaring clues as to what is going to happen. It makes it more fun if you don’t expect that and then BOOM. After ONE re-load you would know what to do. Do players really need their hand held to that degree? Also I have actually been tossing them off the roof at this part and then setting them up for the battle with the 50cal later. A first time player won’t know to do that, but it’s pretty cool if it happens accidentally. I don’t think you can toss crates?

The impaled marine does look a bit odd now. It actually looks like the rebar is simply going from under his vest to out the hole where his neck is so that somebody took his already dead body and placed it on that bar hanging from his vest. The dead metal cock version looked better because it clearly went through his body. If you do mess with this some more try to make the end of the rebar sharpened.

Consider turning the door into FaF tunnel a single keypad door. The extra fast crank is nice, but the doors do looks a little iffy now with how they open. That is a blast door. There is no reason for there to be two doors that open a different times from the same crank. Make it one blast door, one crank or one keypad.

The debris falling from the ceiling is excellent, but I think you should move it down the tunnel a bit or consider copying that effect and using it again further down the tunnel as things are shaking.

-Ya most issues are aesthetic now…just a few gameplay mechanics
-All the cameras do rotate, you just need to stand there longer to watch
-You actually posted your reply like 10 sec after mine. Re the explosive barrels, again you think it’s obvious because you’ve already played through the game. They are ONLY encountered in LC so new players can’t tell that they’re actually explosive. The one reload shouldn’t happen at all if you can avoid it…it’s bullshit game design. As for the crates not making sense, who the hell would bring explosive barrels to the rooftop? See, same argument, equal nonsense.

I agree. It doesn’t really matter how unlikely it is that someone will screw this up. It’s possible to actually break the game here, so if someone does screw up, they might get stuck and frustrated.

I don’t think ending the game and displaying a message requires too much effort (correct me if I’m wrong though), so it’s a relatively minor adjustment for a minor issue.

This line (in bms_english.txt) is probably most suitable:
“BMS_GameOver_Object” “ASSIGNMENT: TERMINATED\nSUBJECT: FREEMAN\nREASON: FAILURE TO PRESERVE MISSION-CRITICAL RESOURCES”

I won’t address everything that everyone’s said as my mapping has gone into full swing. I haven’t really done any mapping since Monday due to personal circumstances but I’m going for it now!

You made some pretty good points there Wangman, so don’t worry, I am going to address a lot of it. I’m hoping for the next beta to be the final beta. At this point I’ve pretty much thrown the voice acting idea out of the window. I’m no longer counting on it.

I get what you’re saying wangman, but I just don’t see the point of having a giant explosive crate there. It will be so obvious what will happen or at least make players never go near them that it takes the fun out of having the sniper shoot them at all. You might as well delete them completely. Isn’t the whole point of having him shoot them to surprise you when you try to hide behind them and make you think it’s cool that it happens?

You’re acting like everything that’s about to happen in games should be known the player so they never have to reload. Where is the fun in that? Remember in half-life right before Power Up when you’re walking in that pipe and suddenly it breaks and you fall down? The first time I played that I had no idea it was going to happen and there were no clues it was going to happen. I fell and missed the table completely and died, but I wasn’t mad. I thought it was awesome. If there was a giant visual or audio clue that the pipe was about to break it wouldn’t have been nearly as cool. I really don’t see how dying once to something makes it bullshit game design.

The TOW not killing the much larger vehicle could be explained by it simply being more of an armored type vehicle. I think you can actually even hit the humvee too. I am guessing there was already a model of the blown up truck that he used so it’s possible he simply can’t do that with the larger truck.

The running out of tow missiles thing is seriously laughable though. I actually do agree you might as well throw in a mission failed message, but it’s funny to think somebody could actually not know what to do and then proceed to be frustrated at that part when the tow is pointed at the door making loud alien moaning sounds lol. You can also get stuck in the mechanic garage if you jump on the truck closest to the vents, hit the lift button and then wedge yourself between the truck and the vents. Maybe we should throw in a message there too for the extremely inept player that downloaded a half-life mod and somehow doesn’t know about quick-loading half way into the game.

@TEXT
I always provide a lot of suggestions so sometimes the priorities do get confused. Like most posters have been saying, I DO beleive your mod is close to final. If I had to prioritize, this would really be all you need to do: 1) polish up the garage, 2) replace the excessive crossbow bolts and add the 2 batteries pre-gasworks 3) add a mission failure notice at TOW courtyard. That’s it. Everything else is icing…but delicious icing.

Regarding the final release, you SHOULD keep your default ammo settings on C2A5G and add the satchel and tripmines. Don’t delete everything to keep consistency w/BMS as having no health and weapons will be confusing to new players just picking up your mod.

@Jessie
-Consider the following choices: 1) designing a game such that players can anticipate a problem to solve 2) desiging a game such that players can’t anticipate a problem to solve till they die. Choice 1 is clearly better as repeatedly using choice 2 will make you think that the game is poorly designed…so why do it? This also happens to be Valve’s philosophy.
-Can’t hit the humvee w/the TOW, just the big vehicle so either that should be made destructible or make the M35 not destrucible. I actually favor the latter as it prevents stupid TOW use.
-I didn’t notice the car shop trick but while you may find it amusing, this is actually a serious issue. The player should either 1) be crushed when it happens 2) have the lift repositioned to avoid the problem 3) decrease lift height on all lifts in the room.

Hi TextFAMGUY1 ! I just played your last version (0.83beta) and It’s really even better ! I found a few bugs and I have some suggestion but I unfortunately didn’t really follow the forum recently because of my work so maybe some were already post.
So here we go :

c2a5g

https://i.imgur.com/SZRAk.jpg
It’s seems that the new car, which is cool bytheway, is made of dirt, not of steel…

https://i.imgur.com/jxH8i.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gCPyD.jpg
Found this bug with the same car

https://i.imgur.com/m4b7r.jpg
The bar go through the door

https://i.imgur.com/MDi8v.jpg
I had this weird bug with the flashlight for every weapons in this vent. I don’t know if it’s from your map or not.

https://i.imgur.com/jKYNn.jpg
This is not aligned

https://i.imgur.com/9NhbI.jpg
Same bug as before… But I imagine you already know about it…

https://i.imgur.com/MqMk6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JOYlW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cLHrp.jpg
This is flying. You should lower it. The weirdest is the sparks when you move it : https://i.imgur.com/j5JOP.jpg
As it is not touching the floor, it is weird. You should lower it or remove the sparks.

https://i.imgur.com/mrD5e.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wBNXq.jpg
Clipping

https://i.imgur.com/YCiRz.jpg
The explosive is not touching the truck contrary as before. Is it because we can now destroy it ?

https://i.imgur.com/ltogZ.jpg
The wheels of the tank continue turning when the tank stop.

https://i.imgur.com/GDMfQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kKKF2.jpg
What the point of this on the floor ? Did you forget it ?

https://i.imgur.com/LTc7o.jpg
Ashes pass through the ceiling

https://i.imgur.com/tq0HU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XEK3z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5cn4P.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mDbno.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t1BZX.jpg
Clipping

https://i.imgur.com/c7XDr.jpg
I understand why you did that hole but that doesn’t seems logic. Maybe this could be tear apart…

https://i.imgur.com/kW18b.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ksqIe.jpg
barbed wire seems flying…

https://i.imgur.com/StSwJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/x50qw.jpg
Serious clipping with that tower

https://i.imgur.com/b7fwN.jpg
Problem with the shadow of the zombie

c2a5h

https://i.imgur.com/AuPdF.jpg
It’s always unclear what there were before the explosion. We should see the remains of a terrace or a (mettalic ?) platform

https://i.imgur.com/JI1OF.jpg
This room is a good idea. I suggest to add a headcrab

https://i.imgur.com/IhRzp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GHEfo.jpg
I think that’s difficult to see but there is little clipping

https://i.imgur.com/bfj5x.jpg
I like the gas. Why not the two others ?

https://i.imgur.com/WGVsC.jpg
That doesn’t encourage to jump, it’s seems we will burn ourselves. But keep the fire, just place it in another way.

https://i.imgur.com/Gf0Mq.jpg
Is it untouched petrol next to gas explosion ?! By the way, the room is not enough in mess for me.

https://i.imgur.com/zrbJE.jpg
Pipe go through concrete

https://i.imgur.com/e2SAH.jpg
I think something is missing. The tank seems flying…

https://i.imgur.com/x8Glz.jpg
The health one was not enabled… You should enable it…

https://i.imgur.com/G8uQd.jpg
The button to go back in the “steam” room doesn’t work

c2a5i

https://i.imgur.com/pn20u.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/F06Hf.jpg
The mortar should do explosion sprite. It seems weird without. It should also do a big splash when falling into the water.

https://i.imgur.com/T8cE1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kA1sb.jpg
debris are flying

PS : Sorry for my bad english

On that note the satchel in the pipe scene doesn’t give you any clue what is about to happen next either. A first time player will probably get toasted there as it’s pretty awkward to backwards jump back out of the pipe and even then if you don’t crouch into the water you will die. The point is it’s a cool section and sometimes it is okay for things like this to happen. You didn’t address my point that having the barrels be clearly labeled explosive crates will make the entire scene moot as nobody will ever go crouch behind them. Your philosophy on game mechanics is good, but sometimes it does need to be overlooked and even valve does that.

Hi there.

Thanks for the report, there are lots of little bugs and clipping errors which I hadn’t previously noticed, and most of these haven’t been reported. I will fix all of these for the next version. Clipping errors seem to be my arch nemesis, they’re annoying as heck!

Don’t worry about the English, I could understand what you meant every time, just fine.

When quashing clipping issues, get yourself into gasworks. There are a number of repeated clipping issues on the wall that you face when you go up the metal stairs. You have a number of horizontal pipes that run along this wall and you have some floor-to-ceiling I-beams as well. Wherever these pipes cross over the I-beams, they clip into each other.

As well, on the main floor underneath the metal overhead walkway, you have smaller horizontal pipes clipping into larger vertical pipes. There are also some horizontal pipes that clip into the front edge and sides of the boilers located there. I reported examples of these instances earlier, along with some screenshots.

I’m sure it’s been somewhat difficult for you to keep track of and address all of the issues reported to you through the healthy feedback you’ve received from the community. For your convenience, I’ve attached my previous screenshots below.

Go gettum’ tiger!

Quote from TextFAMGUY1
“On C2A5I I was sure I’d fixed the script from triggering before the player drops down. I’ll look into it…again.”

For v0.83b-Hotfixed, I reported earlier that my game would crash as soon as my feet touch the grate in the ventilation shaft that you’re suppose to drop down through into the ensuing battle. Could my game crashing be caused by this script triggering issue?

As feedback to you, what would happen is I’d be several feet from the vent. As I approach it, the screen would momentarily stutter. I assume this is the script trigger, that you mention above, engaging. I’d then immediately hear alien beam-in sounds and gunfire followed by a large explosion, presumably the tank blowing up, and then nothing. Proceeding on, as soon as my feet touch the vent grate the game would crash to desktop. I tried this several more times with the same result.

I did play v0.83b without this issue. Hopefully this will be fixed in the next release.

C’mon Thursday! (assuming you’re still on schedule). If not, c’mon later!



I did a quick mess around run this morning and found some more serious type bugs. I will probably do a more thorough post later with screenshots, but here’s the basics in case you start mapping before then.

At the scene with the LAV there is plenty of time to casually walk up to in front of the bunker doors where it spawns and wait for the manta to destroy the osprey, the doors then open and you see the LAV spawn out of thin air. Change the timing such that the LAV spawns before the bunker doors open.

Inside the gas works you are able to go down and trigger barneys dialogue and even use the charger and then casually walk back upstairs and jump out the window you came into, walk up to the exit door and wait for barney to disable the security. The door opens and you walk out and will see the apache across the way spawn out of thin air on the roof and explode. It looks very silly.

The door to go back to the gasworks is also buggy. Sometimes you can open it back up and other times you can’t, but even if you can it only works once. Make it so the door can be opened from both inside and outside infinite times after it has initially been opened by barney.

I am certain that you have an extra snark spawn in the wall somewhere in this area that is triggering when you walk into the second bathroom. You should easily be able to find it by locating where the sound is coming from while playing and then looking in the editor. To me it sounds like it is directly below the second bathroom with the jump pad, if you walk behind the jump pad onto the broken piece of metal protruding out of the building you will hear them below you. If this isn’t the case try deleting and remaking the other snark spawn for the zombies.

I checked the keypads for the doors in the alley outside the parking garage and they in fact do not make the same access denied sound that the later doors make. Add in that sound for those doors.

There are a few too many AC units in some areas. It’s like black mesa suddenly went AC crazy on your maps. I would suggest deleting all of the ones that are against a solid concrete wall as they really make no sense anyways. Screenshots for specific ones to consider removing will come later.

Also,
https://s17.postimage.org/kby874xct/546568678.jpg
I don’t see the resemblance. Possibly switch out the semi-grey non explosive barrel for another blue barrel and then rotate one of the explosive barrels such that the hazard symbol is facing the player when they come onto the roof.

I’ve noticed in my play-throughs that dead corpses, especially human ones, are in very contorted positions. Some of them look painful (I know they are dead so what does it matter). However, their death poses do not appear natural. Are they generated randomly or have you created them to appear in this manner? I can’t recall but maybe it was caused by explosions initiated by me or explosions resulting from normal gameplay.

I’ll submit screenshots if I find any during my next play-through.

I won’t make detailed comments on the stuff that’s been said here mostly because I agree with most of it, and will make changes for the next version.

I’ve read the extra feedback, particularly that from Jessiestorm about the more serious bugs, and I will work to fix all of them. It’s looking increasingly like I’m going to miss tomorrow’s deadline but we’ll see. Don’t count on it. I’m currently struggling horribly with Faceposer trying to construct my own choreography for the guard, so that I no longer have to use the exact same lines from C2A5F, which will be very jarring on a proper playthrough. I’ve actually made good progress but it’s slow progress. The lines fit pretty well together, it’s just the “OH GOD” that I have is said in a completely different tone to the rest of the lines, so I’ve been editing down another line by cutting the audio file and manually making the choreography. I’m picking it up as I go along, but it’s slowed my progress right down. It’ll be worth it when I’m done though - even though it’s not quite as good as if Mr Sisk had agreed to help me, it’s still much better than before. Though I’ve had no reply from him yet I’ve pretty much discounted it at this point.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.