Surface Tension Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

General Development Source 1
#1701

I didn’t address this because THAT’S THE BLOODY POINT! It’s stupid to WANT players to crouch behind an explosive barrel and die. Honestly, on each playthrough that you now make, do you really make a habit to stand in front of that barrel and get killed once for fun? Of course not! It’s a dumb gimmick.

You MUST always distinguish between what’s good and what’s bad. What you are advocating is analogous to making every explosive crate in game indistinguishable from regular crates. How annoying would it be to get killed from an explosion in every other firefight because the HECU shot a nearby explosive crate, which you had no way to tell apart from a regular crate? It would be frustrating and cheap as hell. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT!

This is a terrible argument that Valve making an exception to their rules. Throughout the whole game, you’ve had chance to make this easy association: HECU=asshole, satchel=explode. When an asshole throws you a satchel and tells you to “catch,” obviously bad shit is going to happen. Combine this w/the fact that the explosion moves slower than walking speed and TEXT actually delayed the detonation by 1 sec and it’s clear that any first time player can survive this if they choose too.

You just completely contradicted your argument w/this suggestion! This is what I’m trying to suggest w/the use of explosive crates…to help better distinguish good from bad! It’s just the crates do a better job of this and are more realistic and consistent w/ST as they’ve been seen earlier in this chapter.

Basically, it seems that you just want to keep the barrels so you can throw them off of the rooftop (which you could probably do w/the crates). When prioritizing a extremely unusual playstyle vs good gameplay, it’s obvious which is the better choice. I really think you’re trying to argue from an untenable position.

#1702

The idea isn’t to force players to crouch by the explosives it’s just that if they do to take cover not knowing that the sniper will target them and then he shoots it that it’s supposed to be cool. Was that not the entire point of having him target the barrels? By your logic you yourself should be arguing for the removal of the entire mechanic instead of adding larger explosive boxes? I never said anything about making every crate in the game explosive or removing the markings of all explosive crates, you pulled that out of nowhere. I think turning the barrel so the hazard sign is facing the player will give a smaller hint for them to possibly avoid it then having the big explosive boxes. That is why I brought up rotating it so it’s sort of a compromise of the two arguments. You get the chance to notice it, and yet it’s subtle.

What I was pointing out about the satchel pipe scene is that the satchel doesn’t act like every other satchel in the game. You have those same satchels yourself and when you throw them in any other vent/pipe you crawl through it never sends a shoot of flame down the other end so a player that has never seen that part of half-life might just move back a little to dodge the explosion radius and not turn around and crawl out the entire pipe and then crouch in the water. I only made that connection to try to show you that sometimes players will die to something the first time not knowing what’s going to happen, but it’s OK if it’s something interesting and is tastefully done.

Tossing them off the roof is a moot point, but I do think if it’s extremely obvious that it’s a big explosive nobody will ever go near it and at that point you may as well remove them completely. Also there’s the whole “who put those crates/barrels of explosives up there anyways?” thing. They serve no clear purpose for the environment other than to be shot by the sniper. Can we at least agree on that much? Maybe we could come up with a more tasteful way for them to be implemented like a dead hecu up there that was setting some kind of trap or something.

Anyways overall it’s a very minor issue and I don’t want to clog up the thread arguing over it any more than we already have as TEXT probably already gets the idea by now haha. More clipping issues coming soon I am going to do another run and take some screenies.

Edit: run finished. all small issues nothing game breaking except for something at the very end which was already in BM, but maybe you should consider trying to fix TEXT.

https://i.imgur.com/LK9NV.jpg
After taking another look at him I really don’t think the impaled marines current placement makes sense. The idea is supposed to be that he got impaled onto the rebar while using the jump pad right? When you use that jump pad you don’t go anywhere near where he is. I think he should either be moved up onto the ceiling directly above the jump pad with the same type of impalement as he has now, or do as wangman said earlier and make the rebar coming from beneath him and going up so it’s as if he went up and then landed on a piece of metal sticking up. Either way he needs to be moved over closer to the pad. Also sharpen the end of the piece of rebar it looks really weird how flat it is.

https://i.imgur.com/dnWyA.jpg
Clipping issue with the road in the alley outside the parking garage. The curb on either side seems to go into the bunker door. This is true for the other end of this road as well. If it isn’t a ton of trouble consider widening the road on both sides so the curb is beyond the bunker doors.

https://i.imgur.com/xX5MU.jpg
I think it’s time to delete this ladder and make it a box jump puzzle kind of thing, but not as obvious. Also put an end on the vent that you have to break to get into. This would fit in a lot better with how the other vents are in black mesa and half-life in general. The way it looks now is a little silly. Why would there be a ladder going into an open vent into a mechanic garage? By the way conside adding a vent cap for the vent that goes into the gargantua area as well and if possible cut off the few inches that poke out past the wall making it awkward to get into from the pipe you’re on. Gordon is being sneaky crawling through the vents to get through the facility, it shouldn’t look like they are things people have been crawling through even before the disaster.

https://i.imgur.com/6nTsY.jpg
Inside the mechanic garage the car lift that you use to jump out the window isn’t aligned with the drive in marks and thus the door to the outside that cars come into at all. Obviously this one is moved over so you can jump out, but compare it to the others which are lined up and it looks odd. Maybe move it back to where it should be and see if you can still make it out the window somehow?

The other two:
https://i.imgur.com/T9Gxi.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5bbte.jpg
Also note that on the one with the truck there is an un-movable console thing right in the path that they would drive in on. For the other two lifts this un-mobile console with the computer screen on top is on the side next to the cars. Move the one for the truck out of the drive path and onto the side opposite the console for the car. This would make a lot more sense.

https://i.imgur.com/O5XzY.jpg
This is the spot I mentioned earlier that you can get wedged into and stuck. Jump on the truck closest to the vents and raise it and then simply fall between the truck and the vent and you can’t get out.

https://i.imgur.com/2wcge.jpg
Clipping issue with the door that you blow open with the TOW. The entire ceiling and walls are metal. How was the door even supposed to open, it had nowhere to go.

https://i.imgur.com/nW8xu.jpg
Consider removing this AC/Heater. It looks a little odd where it is.

https://i.imgur.com/DRvz5.jpg
Again there is no place for the door to open into. We know this type of door opens sideways because it’s the same type as the one that you open to leave the level, but it doesn’t look like there’s enough room.

https://i.imgur.com/k4hk8.jpg
Consider removing this AC/Heater as well. There are a lot in this area and this one seems to be going into a cement wall.

https://i.imgur.com/AaZhg.jpg
Could you make the broken glass on the floor here the same glass that you used for the mechanic garage window that breaks? It looks so much better. Also put a player blocking thing above those stalls as well so you can’t get stuck in them.

https://i.imgur.com/e4dD7.jpg
This is exactly how the barrels look when you get onto the roof. If you do decide to keep them or the mechanic of the sniper shooting the explosives at all consider making it look like this:
https://i.imgur.com/ChvWG.jpg
Also to be honest I never liked that pipe/beam that you have to jump over. It makes fighting the sniper a little bit awkward. Maybe remove one or both of those pipes and add some other form of cover yet keep the roof cleaner so it isn’t so awkward to move around while fighting him.

https://i.imgur.com/Ih46N.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vkyVg.jpg
Clipping issue with the gas works door. Again the top and sides are completely solid and when you watch it open it looks really silly because it just goes up through the metal and disappears.

Lastly for the most important part. When the gargantua gets gibbed by the mortar you target him with his corpse pieces will often fall onto the jump pad. This causes the game to crash almost every time it happens. This same thing happened in the BM version. I would highly recommend toying around with this error by gibbing him and then pushing some of the pieces onto the jump pad to recreate it if you can’t get it to happen naturally and then doing all you can to stop that physics error. Maybe make his body parts have no possibility of being effected by the jump pads if you can. This was a pretty popular bug reported when BM came out and likely one of the last crash to desktops left in your maps.

#1703

Mapping’s going really well. C2A5G’s LAV battle is really good now, still needs improvements but it’s nearly there. I’m clearing up all the minor bugs and design flaws that I can find. The choreography for C2A5H is done, it fits much better than the old one even if it is a tad awkward. C2A5I is mostly bugfixes, I might even be able to manage tomorrow’s release date if I get a good day in tomorrow. No uni, and I’ve finished all my serious work for this term so I SHOULD be able to, fingers crossed.

Taking a small break from mapping, to put together my portfolio which I will use to apply for the BM Dev Team, probably later this evening. It consists of the 3 maps I’ve “completed” for Counter-Strike, and of course, the ST Uncut maps.

Going horrendously off-topic here, I figured I’d take the opportunity to show off some of my other creations, seeing as I’ve just uploaded pictures of them. I’ve only ever played them with my groups of friends, never released any. Don’t know why. Bear in mind these were made quite a bit before ST Uncut. I’ve learned a ridiculous amount about mapping and detailing since them, so much so I’ll probably end up revisiting these maps in the future and fixing up flaws. Let me know what you think, and sorry for being so prideful!

CS:GO - FS_Twilight[/SIZE]

FS_Twilight is what I would consider (ignoring ST Uncut) my magnum opus. It plays great, it looks great. Designed for teams of 3 - 6, it is built around a custom gametype I created where the CTs hunt for 2 files hidden in semi-randomized locations around the maps. The Ts are given a notification as to where the 2 files are at the start of each round, the CTs are not aware. This makes every round unique and interesting, with varied, exciting, but still tactical gameplay. A middle ground between “competitive” and “casual” gameplay. This map is a “re-imagining,” or a very loose remake of hi_twilight from the Half-Life mod Hostile Intent. It’s very different, though.

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CS:GO - FS_Sunnyville[/SIZE]

Smaller scale FS map, based around a small house on a Thai estate. Designed for teams of 2 - 4 players, fast and furious gameplay which encourages ALL styles of play. Indoor combat is tense and frenetic, outdoor combat is highly tactical.

1920×1080 358 KB

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That’s it, let me know what you guys think! I guess I’m derailing my own thread but…eh. I’ve been on my best behaviour for the past 85 pages!

#1704

Further to a problem I had reported earlier concerning clipping issues with the two red tool chests located near the truck that’s on the service lift in the service garage, you had replied that this issue can only be corrected by the BM Devs. Maybe there’s a way to lessen the clipping issues from occurring.

If I remember correctly, the default position of the service lift for the truck is in the elevated position. The two tool chests are in front of the truck on the left hand side. In my play-through I tossed a grenade in order to take out a HECU. The resulting explosion caused the two tool chests to come to rest beneath the service lift and the truck. I then lowered the service lift and witnessed the resulting clipping issues between the service lift, truck and tool chests. The secondary issue was that the player could walk through the tool chest. There was no collision detection.

I have a suggestion to possibly correct these clipping issues. Have the default position of the service lift for the truck be in the lowered position. The tool chests then can’t end up beneath the truck, should an explosion occur. This is assuming that all collision detection parameters are correctly in place. To further reduce the probability, situate the tool chests towards the rear of the truck.

Of course, there’s no stopping someone who wants to experiment. One can always raise a service lift, place whatever object underneath it and then lower the service lift and witness the results. But these clipping issues should not occur as a result of what one would consider to be “normal” gameplay.

To re-freshen your memory, I’ve attached the screenshots from my initial post concerning these clipping issues.

Smile :slight_smile:

bm_c2a5g0002.jpg
bm_c2a5g0002.jpg1181×886 84.5 KB

bm_c2a5g0004.jpg
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#1705

Is there any other cut in black mesa or just in surface tension? I mean a cut that deserve rebuilt like your doing.

#1706

I wouldent really blame Text for the clipping issues with the toolbox the same bug can occure in C2A5D, in the garage where you fight your first abrams tank. The same exploit can be done there. so I dont really know why people make this bug into such a big deal if its somthing that text had nothing do do with in the first place.

#1707

They cut the entire last five chapters because they were unpopular among the younger gamer demographic, but that’s really too big for TextFamGuy’s scope.

#1708

Great progress! Here are some more observations. It’s a lot but, I only need the the airstrip/powerlines one addressed. You can skip the rest if you’d like.

Map c2a5g

The parking garage;

  1. I like the zombie changes in the stairwell now.

  2. I still think that changing some of the lights to being out or flickering would add a sense of damage to the structure.

  3. Thank you for adding a player clip field to the 2nd story windows. I still think that adding a trigger using the first half of the dialog “simper fi my . * we just need to get out into the open.” (end dialog) by the windows would help guide the player towards wanting to find a way into the alley, as well as setting up a plausible reason as to; a) what the marines are doing in the alley (their lost or trapped) and b) why there’s a ladder at the infested air vent. = As the dialog suggests, the marines in the alley are frustrated and lost, as they setup a ladder to climb into the air vent they’re ambushed by the alien spawn ins.

    The Alley
    The only thing in the alleyway that I see as odd is the undamaged security camera over the burnt out M35.

    In the Car Shop.

  4. nice effect with the blue glass and dirty ceiling windows.

  5. you’ve created a good petrol station but, the only way that I can see it is by using noclip. Could you change the locked door by the station wagon lift to a windowed door so we can this?

  6. an oil drum would be a nice and fitting touch to the shop.

    The Tow courtyard.

  7. I don’t think that the HEMTT has a gib model. But, a variant of the HEMTT is commonly used as an air defense system transport vehicle. Which being close to the airfield on a massive secret research facility like Black Mesa somewhere near White Sands, wouldn’t be beyond reason. So even if it can’t be destroyed, PLEASE keep it here.

  8. I’m pretty bad at using the Tow, but thankfully, you added enough explosives and a turret to negate my bad playing skills. So, I only have to fire the tow once, to blast the door. You’ve had it like this for a few versions, but its still worth a thank you nonetheless.

•••••The scene scape as viewed from the tow courtyard;
The airstrips should be clear of powerline towers by a wide margin. The powerline towers by one of the airstrips can be seen from ground level. It’s a small detail but, our attention is drawn to that area by the Harrier that takes off from that airstrip. This segment of the vista scenery is great otherwise. I’m not sure that I like the way that this one sounds…•••
c2a5h:

The hallway, the players point of origin to the entry to the tank courtyard.

  1. when coming out of the security checkpoint at the players origin. I noticed two changes which I like. a) the Vort seems to be examining the body. b) you’ve lowered the window looking into the break room with the dead guard.

  2. down the hallway, the observation windows on the right hand side looking over the pass through road is too high. But probably a lot of work for minimal results.

  3. Not as bad as before but, I’m still having a frame rate drop at the trigger point for the blast out of the wall giving you access to the tank courtyard. But then again I’m playing on a 5 year old system at max settings.

    The Tank courtyard.

  4. I like the change made to the main entrance to the gasworks building.

  5. the smoke stack assembly in the vista at building A8 is a nice addition, thank you.

  6. security checkpoint.
    a) I like the closet in the security checkpoint though, the guard should have a way to allow himself and walking personnel through without having to open the main vehicle doors.
    b) A desk with a magazine or book and a mug or cup for those long and quiet night shifts would also be a nice touch.
    c) too many signs on the outside of the shack. Don’t need anymore than three. A “stop” sign, a “restricted access, ID required” sign, and a sign stating “see site security coordinator for temporary pass”. Keep it simple, less reading, strait forward, less explaining that the guard has to do. In this scenario the guard only has to say, “read the signs, no ID, no pass, no getting through, see my boss in the main office if you got a problem with that, I’m just following my orders”…(that’s just an example, no need for a voice actor or anything since the guard here is already dead).

    Furnace building: The roof top,

  7. I like how you’ve added a door with a room here. I was wondering how someone would be able get drums to and from the roof.

  8. I like the change that you’ve made to that small unconnected white airduct.

  9. the roof now feels too cluttered though.

  10. still needs a chimney to vent the smoke from the furnace.

    Inside he furnace building.

  11. getting inside of the satchel pipe is a breeze now, thanks.

  12. I like the new placement of the missing valve wheel, however, those horizontal pipes seem harder to get over. But, after looking at that model, I see your point.

  13. still needs a way to explain how someone can get those drums to and from the drum storage area. Just add a locked door to that area or replace the drums with something else.

    The gasworks building.

  14. nice damage to the entry room. The Vorts come strait through the door as soon as I opened it, caught me off guard, nice.

  15. leading from the small room to the main floor, move the horizontal pipes to the left abit so that the little pipe no longer jets out in front of the big rollup door, lower the pipes a little and drop a floor plate with some steps to cross over these pipes.

  16. trade out that sandbag setup for equipment cases. Weapon emplacement + inflammable gas pipes = bad day. Equipment to setup the units’ temporary CP in the site security / control office = good idea.

    Security / control office.

  17. add some wall meter panels like the ones from PowerUp to monitor the gasworks.

  18. add some blue screens to the computer monitors and maybe that eerie blue glow from the burned out office building in c2a5f.

    Through the security checkpoint doors and to c2a5i.

  19. forget changing the guards dialog. Add a second keypad door that the guard tries to unlock for you and rig a military trap to kill him before he can do that. Awkward problem solved.

  20. it’s much easier to get into the snark vent now. Thank you.

c2a5i

  1. you’ve fix to some extent the lag problems that I was having with the Garg chase to the mortar strike courtyard. Thanks.
  2. if I choose to let the Garg live, he no longer chases my past the doors to the small parking lot into the tunnel leading to map c3a1a Forget about Freeman.

Anyway, you’ve doing an amazing job.

#1709

very great, very great… thank you! maybe you could put 2 different vending machines in echt level of the garage… and make the airduct collapse next to that explosive trap in the garage…

otherwise its excellent… i’ve found the 2 new rooms… i like that new room on the roof very very much… excellent!!!

#1710

grrrr! Envy!:’(
I’m the only one that haven’t found these new rooms! :stuck_out_tongue:

#1711

Hold on there! Who’s blaming anyone??? Just pointing out game issues, as many others are doing, to TextFAMGUY1. This is the whole point behind him asking the BM community to provide feedback to him. He gladly welcomes it. Specific to my feedback concerning the clipping issues in the service garage, I’ve suggested a possible solution to the problem. Whether or not it will work, I don’t know.

Correcting the same problems that exist in C2A5D is a matter for the BM Devs to address, if they so desire. It is wholly their decision, which we have no control over.

We do, however, have control over the development of ST Uncut by way of our reporting our observations, comments and suggestions to TextFAMGUY1. Ultimately, he decides what to act on and what not to act on. In the end, we’re all striving towards the same goal. Assisting TextFAMGUY1 in making ST Uncut as good as it can possibly be.

#1712

Just a quick update, mapping at the moment. I recruited a modeller from Facepunch to try and fix the weird UV mapping on the debris which collapses when the trap in the garage gets set off. He’s succeeded. However there’s a snag - when the model gets recompiled (I’ve done it myself, I get the same problem), it breaks the destruction animation which becomes really seriously glitchy. So we’ve exchanged a bad bug for an even worse one. Thus, we have to go back to square one, and we may possibly have to live with it. I’m seeing what I can do to fix it now.

None that stand out quite as badly as the cuts to ST did. On A Rail was cut too, but from what I can understand this was a purposeful decision by the devs, to try and make it a more “refined” experience because they thought the original was a bit too long and confusing. ST’s cuts, at least appearance wise, were clearly rushed and there was A LOT of content gone - OaR’s appear to be more thought out and certainly don’t harm the overall story as much.

If it’s a bug with a physics object there’s not much I can do to stop it. I can, however, manipulate the objects so it’s less likely to happen, so I’ll do that.

Thank you for the very detailed, excellent report. Don’t worry about being too critical either - firstly, I can take it! Secondly, that wasn’t too critical at all, it’s perfect, I have lots of useful feedback to use now. So thank you. I won’t reply now as I’m working on mapping for a release today (HOPEFULLY), but I read it all.

This guy gets it.

#1713

That’s cool about the facepunch work. I hope you guys can get it sorted out. I dunno if you saw my last post of bugs or not, but I was thinking about the garg gib physics bug with the jump pad and was thinking maybe you could add a filter around the two jump pads in the courtyard that blocks out all of his gibs similar to the one you added in the LAV section that blocks the osprey gibs from falling over the railing.

Edit. Oh and those CS maps look really nice. Are you ever going to put those up for download somewhere?

#1714

Well, we’re now in a situation where I’m probably going to have to live with it. So it’s either - put up with the horrible UV mapping on the default model, or have NO animation on the fixed version (as in - it goes from being fully intact to fully destroyed instantaneously, which I’ll have to obscure or something). Neither of these are particularly good solutions but it looks like we’re stuck with them.

As for the Garg physics bug, already done that. Haven’t tested to see if it works yet, but it should.

As for the CS maps, dunno. Maybe one day. The problem is my maps tend to be very non-conventional for CS.

#1715

I really like unconventional for CS… Problem is, majority wants to play the same maps over and over again… ( I experienced that on EVERY LAN… well, i haven’t been to one since senior classes in school and I’ve begun to study, 3-4 years ago that is)… I hope the DEV Team will pick you, I think you’re really skilled and in some points even a better designer (I felt some of the BM maps, while made great, were a bit too much based on its HL counter part, yours is a bit more individual).
Excited for the next version!

#1716

I just found a workaround for the bug with the new model for the roof collapsing. It’s a filthy, dirty workaround - I skip 4/5 of the collapsing animation, but it actually looks just fine, you won’t be able to tell the difference. Now there’s no UV mapping bug and it all looks good. There’s a few things with the destruction I have to improve now but it’s really no sweat! Great!

I probably will be able to release today (as there are no more serious problems left to address, and nothing too time consuming, just small bug fixes) but it will probably be very late this evening.

Well thank you, that’s very kind. When all this is over I may consider releasing a few of my CS maps, as I now have “experience” with releases, and I’m establishing a name in the “mapping community,” so to speak.

I reckon my maps go about as far from the original HL maps as is possible without being entirely different maps! They are really quite different, but you can definitely still see traces of the original in it. The reason I did that is because the originals…were really quite poorly designed.

#1717

What? No they didn’t. They’ll be released in the future. Where are you getting this from :confused:

#1718

I think you’ll find he was joking, my friend.

#1719

Never noticed I guess!

#1720

Running a bit behind as I’ve been fine tuning several parts of C2A5G, trying to get everything perfect at this point. C2A5H and C2A5I will be much less work, however, so that’s good. C2A5G is SO NEARLY there, there are no major problems left. Not sure if this will impact my release tonight or not.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.