Surface Tension Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

General Development Source 1
#421

Idea for reworking that gass puzzle, have the pipes turn of the gas flow but after a bit one “bursts” starting the flow again requiring the player to obstruct it with something.

on the .50 cal I noted some clipping errors with it in the video,… not clue why mentioning it.

also a suggestion for the manta, have the buildings “exit” blocked till after it blows up the tank or else you will have some players going out into the battle. I had a paint image form the make the tank attack the player idea, that should show what I mean… if you can find it on the topic.

edit: just a note on your rework of the second bathroom, would be a good idea to have it look broken down, and have its only light be out side and xen fauna. also would be a good idea to place medkits in that general area cause most people will get hit by that sniper and if you go into a sniper battle with 10 hp its bad.

#422

maybe the tank turret flying of and colapsing the building the playr is in could do the trick



2240×1488 293 KB

#423

1920×1080 232 KB

[/QUOTE]
Bathroom
The use of broken tiles around xen fauna is an excellent idea! The fauna looks great and its presence makes sense, since there’s lots of water in bathrooms which would support their growth.

However, while some players have been rooting for the jump pad, I think it’s really iffy from a design and gameplay standpoint. First off, why the hell would a jump pad spawn in the bathroom and fit just right…especially in such a small space? Note that the pad also happened to spawn PERFECTLY just under a hole in the wall to let you out. Seems a bit too convienent right? Plus, remember that you also placed a jump pad underneath a hole in the parking lot (which was a more reasonable spawn) and it may be best not to repeat this element.
Second, if you use a jump pad, you may need to adjust the area on the balcony such that Gordon doesn’t take fall damage, because you get significant height from using the pad. The alternative is to adjust the the jump height on this pad but I think that would be a bad idea as the devs will most likely use one height for the pads when they design Interloper.

All in all, I think it’s probably best to just use a ladder and keep it simple.

Explosion in Gasworks
I agree with previous posts that it should have something to do with the Apache. Perhaps after you enter the gasworks room, you start to hear the Apache’s chopper blades outside followed by some minigun fire and hellfire missles as it’s mowing down Xenians (all outside). Then a stray hellfire missile hits the rooftop or the side of the shack, which would shatter the window and grant you access to the Barney. The latter option could work if part of the gasworks building roof was previously destroyed. That way you can see the Apache and the stray missile shot. Once the Apache is out of view, you hear a manta blast and the chopper crashes.

#424

We have been talking about you work on facepunch, our views are…varying.

Here is the post where we start talking about your videos of the maps.

https://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1152082&p=38060627&viewfull=1#post38060627

Personally, I like the work you have done so far, i just wish you could make the maps fit more with the current black mesa theme and gameplay. There are alot of ideas in the thread and a few of them pretty much cover what i think at the moment.

#425

Ok, my 2 cents.

One jump in that pipe jumping puzzle seemed kinda sketchy (the one where you jump diagonally from a handrail), especially with that other pipe so low above the player. It’s obviously not an issue for experienced players, but I’d expect such a jump to lead to some bonus area / alternate route rather than the only way to advance.

^this.

How about having the apache crash through the roof and into the window, thus breaking it. The apache exploding into a fireball could draw the player’s attention to said window.

Sorry, I just couldn’t resist. That said, you are definitely on to something there, it sounds great.

This would be pretty awesome, provided it doesn’t distract the player from noticing the breaking window.

I think you yourself mentioned this, but yeah, have a flickering light inside the room you need to climb into for maximum noticability.

Next, the satchel charge pipe kinda makes no sense, well at least the other end of it that ends in a room. Maybe add a continuation of said pipe but have a section of it removed for maintenance/repair.

The gas leak in the pipe before the satchel explosion is IMO not really needed. Explosives in tight enclosures with only one point of exit are a force to be reckoned with, gas or no gas. (Try firing a blank with your finger in the barrel).
This wouldn’t really be an issue if the gas didn’t obstruct the players view of the satchel throw. If you can convey the explosive atmosphere in some other way, that’s totally cool.

Next, the barrel in furnace puzzle is just no good. I can’t think of anything to replace it with at the moment, but IMO if it can’t be redone it should be removed entirely.

That’s all I can think of right now, everything else is really awesome. The main battle is exceptionally well done.

[EDIT] As for the bathroom, I’d suggest using the light from the hole in the ceiling as the main source of light. (Like the corridor at the beginning of the video) The xen flora really benefit from scarce lighting. The idea someone posted about making a broken toilet into a sort of fountain of life also sounds cool.

#426

The xen fauna looks great and its presence makes sense, since there’s lots of water in bathrooms. Since water is the ingredient for life, it makes sense that they would fluorish here.

However, while some players have been rooting for the jump pad, I think it’s really iffy from a design and gameplay standpoint. First off, why the hell would a jump pad spawn in the bathroom…especially in that bathroom where everything is super cramped and the pad happened to PERFECTLY appear just under a hole in the wall? Seems a bit too convienent right? Plus, remember that you also placed a jump pad underneath a hole in the parking lot (which was a more reasonable spawn) and it may be best not to repeat this element.
Second, if you use a jump pad, you may need to adjust the area on the balcony such that Gordon doesn’t take fall damage, because you get significant height from using the pad. The alternative is to adjust the the jump height on this pad but I think that would be a bad idea as the devs will most likely use one height for the pads when they design Interloper.
All in all, I think it’s probably best to just use a ladder and keep it simple.

I honestly feel the presence of the jump pad in the bathroom is a little iffy.
[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. Maybe just put a simple physics puzzle there. Well, not really a puzzle, just a few boxes or something you have to stack up to get up there.

#427

actually it sort of makes sense, if the jump pad is a spore based plant that is, it could have rooted in the bathroom, it can be made to make more sense by having the bath room destroyed and more open. also one thing I see form QE is that xen fauna seems to like darker areas, this map seems to reinforce that a bit at least till the bathroom. would be a good idea to have the lights broken and not working for that room and hall way.

#428

I agree with this. Players should simply be able to turn off the furnace by using the two red valves, which in turn would disable the flames coming out of the blue pipe. This area doesn’t need to be a puzzle since the one in gasworks is great.

It’s not at all like a spore-based plant, more like an accessory anal sphincter muscle (see how it is used in Interloper). Making the bathroom more open would be an alternative to help to alleviate the “lucky” nature of the pad, but from a design perspective, it would be less time consuming to just add a ladder, some boxes, or debris.

Side note for TEXTFAMGUY1
I remember some of the posters (myself included) mentioning that players need to stand by the red valves and hold the use key to work them. Instead of getting rid of the valves, I suggest that you keep them and implement this function, since they are similar to the ones from Forget About Freeman.

The only time when this is problematic is the sniper scene on the rooftop.
Simple solution: Put a couple of barrels on the rooftop. The smart player will pick these up and use it to shield them from the sniper shots while they work the valve. This gives players more choices during the scene: 1) not address the sniper and just work the valve or 2) kill the sniper with RPGs from the dead marine and then work the valve.

#429

Sooo… Break out the entire corner of the building with the bathroom. That would also take care of that criticism about the black windows… And take care of the “lucky jump pad location” issue people are having.

And make the player go the long way around the pipes to get to the second valve in the furnace room.

#430

the furnace room really needs to be changed, even with the area being a gas works it still doesn’t make sense. maybe change it to a storage room that has that blue gas pipe running above it with a maintenance entry. the flame from the gas pipe could be explained with a spark from the pipe opening, you could move the valves around the room so that it shows that they are emergency shut of valves,

idea (throwing things at wall and hopign they stick here)

replace the furnace with a storage room that is being used by the hecu for military equipment, have 2 valves in the room that connect to the blue pipe both labeled emergency shut off valve. have the hinge on the blue pipe spark when it opens lighting up the gas. this would require the player to shut of the gas flow.

#431

The furnace room does seem a bit out of place, tbh.

About the bathroom jump pad, what if you make it a mini-puzzle, where the ceiling is closed but has some cracks in it, and you have to put a heavy object/satchel (provided in a nearby room?) on the jump pad and have it launch into the ceiling and break it(/blow it open)?

#432

Excellent, like it

#433

What would be the purpose of a gasworks if the furnace room is out of place? Without it, the gasworks would simply exist around some warehouses and aircraft hangars. Just some food for thought.

Bathroom
After hearing the arguments regarding the bathroom windows, I just realized something:

NO WINDOWS PERIOD! You really want the world to see you take a piss?! Not smart game design (or life design).

#434

Rather than adding on several small incidents from HL that are missing in BM, I think it’s far more important, plot-wise and for overall completeness, to bring OaR up to a reasonable facsimile of its HL version. That’s of course if you decide to do so, once you’re done with your amazing work on ST. I recognize, but can’t fully appreciate, the difficulty in the work you’re doing. So proceed as you see fit. You know we’re all thankful and behind you in whatever you decide to do.

#435

That’s perfect,it would explain the hole in the ceiling.

#436

yet how would you get a player to see that, that is what they are to do… ok I have some ideas

  1. have a peace of rock fall of the ceiling as soon as the player enters that hits the jump pad and then hits the ceiling causing more to fall but not enough to do more damage.

  2. have a head crab walk into the pad and get launched into the ceiling… ok this is idea one with the rock replaced with a headcrab.

#437

That manta ray is bugging the hell out of me. Why can’t it appear from the back like the others?

#438

Before I start this I’m going to preface it by saying I’m gonna ease back on the mapping for a couple of days, probably won’t do much until Monday. University project due Friday, and I’ve got a busy weekend. I’m still committed to this project, and am looking towards an alpha release within the next 2 weeks or so. Heavy changes will be made, don’t you worry about that. Thank you everyone for your support and advice. I hope I’ve done myself proud, I certainly think I have (especially considering I’ve been doing this for just over 2 weeks!).

Right, there’s such vast amounts of feedback in this thread I’m going to be here all night if I address everything individually. So I’ll try and sum up everything I’ve seen here and address it.

Overall Map Comments
The final version will have soundscaping and background fighting which gives the impression there’s a big war going on. This will happen on both C2A5G and C2A5H (the two maps I’ve showcased so far).

The 3D Skybox for C2A5H hasn’t even been started yet. I was in more of a rush to get this map’s video out of the door than the other one as I felt I had a bit more to live up to (and I wanted some motivation, which I was lacking a little with C2A5H). I will make it consistent with C2A5F and will also attempt to expand them both a fair amount. I want this world to feel just as alive and expansive as you do.

Making the window jumping puzzle in the gasworks more obvious
I’m having no grand sequences for this. There are enough scripted sequences already, if you implement too many it ruins the pacing and becomes like a CoD campaign, which is just set-piece after set piece with an occasional sprinkling of nothing but chaotic action. And Half-Life is so much better than that. I currently simply have a nearby explosion which sounds nearby rupturing the gas lines by the windows, causing them to shatter, making the light spark and start flickering. It should be fairly obvious. Throughout the indoor sections of the level (and outdoor, but implemented differently) there will be a combination of near and far explosions occurring randomly. Barney says: “They’re bringing in the heavy artillery” - they sure are. I’ve also already made the pipes outside the window 32 units thick now (up from 8 ). It should be obvious you can walk on them now.

As a funny coincidence, even before comments about this sequence which should involve the Apache appearing, I’ve already changed the gasworks to have an Apache crashed halfway through the roof (if you’ve ever played Killing Floor, think KF-Crash). I think it looks pretty bloody cool, and spices up the environment a little.

Furnace Room Puzzles/Design
I’m going to change it around. Blocking the Furnace isn’t a good puzzle, I agree. I was on the fence about it before but now I think it isn’t good. I’ll probably just make it turning off 2 - 3 valves, with some of them missing from their respective pipes. I’d love to actually involve putting something in the furnace somehow, but it doesn’t seem that feasible.

The only one I can think of is involving Satchel Charges. The fire in the Furnace rages initially. Turning the valves one way increases the size of the fire but does nothing else. Turning them off puts the fire out. You then activate the valves again, to fill the furnace with gas. Somehow signpost to the player they should throw a satchel in, and then close the doors. Let it fill up with gas a little, then set it off. It explodes the system, opening a hole in the pipe for you. How to make this clear to the player? I have no idea. Ideas are welcome, though I’ll probably just stick to the simple find+turn the valves idea.

As to the rest of the furnace room, I don’t see how it makes any less sense than all the other parts of the Black Mesa Facility. It’s a furnace, next to a gasworks. Sure, they’re a bit far apart, but it doesn’t seem totally unfeasible to me. ST is supposed to take place in the industrial parts of Black Mesa anyway. I was quite happy sticking to the original here, I thought I did the best compromise I could between following the old and making something new. I’m not sure I’m comfortable with changing it from a furnace room. Changing the layout, puzzles and other things? Hell yeah, if it works better. But entirely? I’m not sure.

Bathroom with Jump Pad
I will rework it somehow, because it isn’t good. The hideous ugly windows are the remnants of the fact I was originally not making that an enterable area - so the ugly windows were just meant to be seen from the outside. The jump pad is a weird idea in terms of its logical placement but I think it’s really underused in Black Mesa and I want to see more of it!

Satchel Pipe Scene
People have complained about a few things which I’ve already fixed for the next version. I fixed the water bug easily. The steam blocking your view is gone. The timing is better, he throws it very quickly after opening the door and closes it. It’s better.

Some people have complained about the exit to the satchel pipe being illogical. I agree. Totally illogical. But it’s exceptionally difficult to rework that scene to have the same impact as the original, with a different layout. It’s the only one that works as far as I can tell. The door needs to be closeable, otherwise that HECU Satchel Marine is more likely to blow himself up than you, which would be stupid. I’d quite like to have it as a pipe with a maintenance opening or something but I’m not sure how I could make that work. I don’t think it has the same impact if you can’t directly see the Marine from the front, throwing the satchel.

“In universe” explanation - it was the one not pursued by the Harrier, and it turned back to help kill the Abrams.

“Out of universe” meta explanation - It’s a far more dramatic effect when you can see the Manta approaching, scouring its laser beam across the ground towards you, pulling away before it cuts up the ground you’re standing by.

Right, hope that’s cleared some things up. I’ll be around to answer any further questions/address any other points/criticisms.

#439

You’re doing pretty well.

you have answered to all major issues(2 puzzles+bathroom ladder).

A small advice to improve your map
The pipe,that you walk into after the furnace room, it’s that blue pipe outside.
The idea it’s cool but the player does not see it.
You should make a small rift, in order to make it understandable.
Would be really cool!

#440

Don’t rush yourself, take your time. And for the love of god, if you have things for university, go for them. It’s a pleasure to see you are such a dedicated mapper/modder but don’t let it affect your Occupation. I for one can definitely wait a few months (or years regarding official Xen release :smiley: , but that’s a different story)

I agree with you, I’d also love to see this implemented, but it doesn’t seem very real (although I will favor a good gameplay mechanic over realism any time - HL was never about Realism) and it’s difficult to give hints to the player what he has to do. On the other hand, I don’t really like the search-valve-and-use-it type solution. It annoyed me already in HL2.

Difficult to find a good solution here

Yeah, totally agree with you that the Launch pad was underused in BM!! I really like the implementation into the toilet, it’s a lot more clear where to head for the player and in addition with the added xen flora it just feels very natural and in no sense unlogical placement wise to me… If there is Xen Fauna, why not a Jump Pad ? I mean the Jump Pad in the Garg Chase obviously there for gameplay reasons, yet here people are bickering about the placement ? Jeez… but i would break the ground open on the place where it is as suggested before, because now it just looks as if it grows out of the tiles.

Yeah, it’s not that easy to make the part with the marine logical… If you can’t find a solution I say leave it as it is… gameplay wise it’s really great, it just doesn’t make sense layout wise, but HL as well as BM have still plenty other places which don’t make sense layout wise but you oversee them easily because they have exciting gameplay, so it’s really nitpicking on a high level here.

^this exactly.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.