practicality of the tram cars

Black Mesa Archive Suggestion Box
#1

I hesitate to post this here since I’m not quite sure I’m convinced of my own argument. The other night I was in need of something to do, so I started to comb over the screenshots (for about the tenth time or so) looking to see mapping styles etc.

My only real concern, among a few trivial ones, was that after looking over the tram sequence… Simply put: I wouldn’t trust it to carry cargo, let alone people. I don’t mean to criticize the artistic quality of the levels, because they are amazing. However, I have noticed that the BMS team has gone to great lengths to correct “things that don’t make sense”, architecturally. They have added vents where none where before because it makes sense. Structural supports where there were none before, window views into inaccessible labs where there had only been wasted flat walls before.

Considering all that, why wasn’t more work taken to make the tram more practical? Maybe I’m crazy but I would just assume that any corner that the thing took while following a bottom-rail (rather than top-rail that it sometimes uses) would find gravity and momentum spilling the thing over any time it went any faster than 5 mph / 8 kph… That said, what propels it? From what I can tell the tram carriage is entirely lacking any engine/motor/crank/whatever. I thought perhaps the track itself had an internal hook/chain/something but that wouldn’t really be very practical.

So I’m not suggesting anything here, because as far as I know, maybe the current screenshots don’t show these things. I could also be underestimating the structural stength of a tiny rail keeping a 1 ton carriage in alignment as it moves around corners. Maybe the corners have dual-rails that I’m not seeing.

Of course, I’m splitting hairs here, but I wouldn’t have noticed something so small unless the rest of the new Black Mesa wasn’t so otherwise well thought and air-tight. I certainly wouldn’t expect a mod by lesser developers to be concerned with such nit-picky details.

#2

The tram is no doubt propelled using magnetic levitation. Search wikipedia for maglev for example of modern trains utilizing this technology. This would probably also lend to a stabilizing effect on the tram itself.

Edit, also check out Gyroscopic stabilization:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_monorail

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev_%28transport%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monorail

#3

Most real monorails I’ve seen have to lean into the corners somewhat - I wonder if that is particularly easy to do tho in Source… Then again, the trams don’t seem to go all that fast…

#4

Good point, Jokker. That would take care of the propulsion problem almost entirely. However, gravity and inertia/momentum cannot really be ignored.

Notice how most of the maglev trains have tracks that are as wide as the base of the carriage, as well as a design where the carriage itself tapers upward. The BM trains, by contrast, have a tiny tiny rail and a non-tapered design (the latter of which is fine since it’s above and below mounted but does add to being middle heavy on turns).

As to Guf’s reply, leaning into the corner would definitely take care of the issue, but I doubt it’s practical to implement mapping-wise. The real-life monorails also have significantly much less drastic turns, which is why they can go at such speeds. The BM trams definitely aren’t slow though. The carriage toppling over would be a chance maybe instead of a 100% certainty if it were going much faster.

If I were suggesting anything at all at this point, it would be the addition of guide-rails above the car on sharp turns when below-mounted, since it would be the most economic change to implement. Such turns when already above-mounted would be a non-issue and at worst would result in some wear-and-tear on the track/carriage over time.

#5

Actually the stability can be retained with a gyroscope due to conservation of angular momentum.

Watch this video for a demonstration of the principle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cquvA_IpEsA

Skip to around 2:00 to see the gyroscope balancing on a string, gravity defying to say the least.

#6

Thanks Jokker! One of those articles exactly nailed my concern.

As for the youtube video, I was amazed! My mouth dropped when I saw how it was able to defy natural forces.

I have no doubt that using a technology like that could prevent a tram from toppling over. The question is would the minimal chasis have room for such a component?

#7

A gyro for stability, or multiple along it’s length, need only be a relatively heavy ring so can be large but thin and flat, so would easily fit in the floor or roof or both.
Being as large as the tram is wide would mean it could be thinner than if it was a smaller radius for the same effect.

#8

Well that settles that then. Black Mesa apparently uses gyro monorails.

Thought it would still be cool to see those (modern-day gyros) in action, if the modeler(s) are looking for some more gadgetry to incorperate with the various machinery around Black Mesa.

#9

Glad we could help, and also glad nothing needs changing :stuck_out_tongue:

#10

Keep in mind that not ALL games are bent on realism. We’ve all enjoyed games that, at some point, we saw something that made us go “Wow that’s not real”. The point is, the devs are doing their best to complete this mod to our liking. Don’t go making them change something when they’re nearly completed.

#11

Hence my comment about how gyros can be imagined to fit into the current model so no work is required to retcon them in.

#12

I would’ve never suggested that anything drastic be done. Making all the tracks wider would have been completely unrealistic. However, adding guide rails around sharp turns would have been fairly economic, maybe a couple hours at most, depending how many sharp corners there are. The new gyro idea doesn’t even require change, though it does allow for the possibility of the modelers incorperating a more exposed model that could show off such technology (and maybe even educate the player).

I won’t apologize for suggesting something, Jack. Though maybe that wasn’t what you were meaning.

#13

Spinning gyro wheels could no doubt be visible through some grating under and/or above the tram for the need to expell heat from the electric motors required to power the gyroscopes.

#14

Maybe they use the superconductor trick and don’t have to spin them up all that often?

#15

That would require immense cooling equipment on the tram cart with liquid oxygen or liquid helium tanks. Besides, i think the trams are quite high-tech enough :stuck_out_tongue:

#16

The schematics for the real-life prototype talked about having the gyro wheels powered by the vehicle’s forward movement. So when you’re not going fast, the gyros don’t go very fast either.

#17

I’m confused. Are you talking about the tram at the start? Or the trams things you ride in On a Rail?

#18

Potentially both, but I think originally the start tramride.
The issue with using gyros for the OnARail trains is that they don’t stay level - they tilt.

#19

Alright then.

#20

trams don’t seem to go fast enough to tip over…
Though it probably would have been much easier engineering to just put 2 tracks under it, or have it hang under a track all the time. The current setup requires 2x the motor (or 1 motor that can feed 2 transmissions, whatever).

As for propulsion, it’s obviously electric, as you get electrified on most rails in the game anyway.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.