On A Rail Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

[Dadster]

Pretty impressive work in your video, Text, considering just three weeks worth of part-time development work. It’s astounding.

I know it’s early on, but I tend to agree with Artic Xiongmao, in that some of the environments are crammed with too many objects and end up looking too busy. For example, the conference room has four bookcases joined together along one wall. I think two max would suffice. It’s the old adage where less can be observed as more.

Also, as a heads up, I saw a couple of instances where the mounting brackets for large pipes were adhered to the ground which had a grate on it, which looks kind of odd. Try using an appropriate pipe model whose mounting brackets can be attached to the wall. Looks more normal and neater.

[Artic_Xiongmao]

After watching the video, I can add that the whole chapter is far less confusing than in the original Half-Life, and also far more interesting than the Black Mesa rendition, both visually and gameplay-wise.

I especially liked that you made the crane room make sense. The crane control room is accesible directly, but the power is off. Great idea. Also, adding that iconic scene in which a battle happens above you while you crouch below the grates is phenomenal, although, as you said in the video itself, the battle needs some balancing. Electrifying the water is also a very neat idea; no need for making the office complex skippable. I would delete the barnacles though… the electrified water is danger enough.

However, the cafeteria is waaaay too bright. Realistic, maybe. But it clashes a lot with the rest. And you say that you will fill the corridors with more things… Please don’t! There’s already too much clutter in the chapter, generally. There’s no reason to add more, especially in the offices. The rooms themselves already have enough things in them, if not too much.

[Strider397]

Was that song cut from BM? Never heard or seen it.

[Wangman]

It’s a good first pass. I’ll post up some feedback maybe later today when I have time…ideally you can release the alpha soon as this version is good enough for testing/design purposes. It’ll certainly help me provide better feedback for some of the more serious design flaws (e.g. tram logistics, undeveloped HL C section). In the mean time couple of things…

-Don’t work too hard on the cafeteria…the area’s iffy
-The OaR lite/uncut idea is kinda dumb as it caters to people w/dumb thinking

Will explain later.

[TextFAMGUY1]

Thanks everyone for the kind words. I was really proud of this work. I think the skills gained from ST Uncut have proved absolutely invaluable.

@Chickenprotector

I have to say, very cleverly done… For the design decisions for the area just after the office complex (the electrified pool),

If the player wants to travel on foot, why not have a maintenance hatch/hole/hall or something near the players tram area (the door is initially locked) and have it lead to various areas in the office complex as well as back to the particular hall for the tram?

It’d be less tedious for the trip back to the tram if you so choose to go back for it. Another option is to add in a “stop off” for another tram (it can have a few boxes on it, mimicking it being unloaded for some time before) and the player can procure another tram that way.

Well, the biggest problem with that is that again, if I have a second tram later on down the line, a player can just bypass the Office Complex. As the Office Complex is basically the focal point of the entire map, and considering how much effort I put into making it, I really don’t want people to be able to skip it - but at the same time I don’t want to frustrate the player by making them go all the way back to get the tram like I did in the video. That’s the dilemma.

A maintenance tunnel which only opens when the security is overridden (and leads back to the tram) seemed like a good idea, until I checked out the map on the editor. From the final straight back to the toll gates IN A STRAIGHT LINE, the distance is 3,400 units. It’s still a massively long way to go.

While I was writing that sentence I just had a stroke of genius, however, and I’m almost certainly going to implement it. I can have a tram sitting in a side area near the end of the level, like you said, mimicking being unloaded/loaded/whatever, but it too is sitting behind a toll gate, which is also only opened when the security system is overridden. This way a player who walks from the security office to near the end of the level doesn’t have to backtrack all the way to get their tram, but still cannot beat the level without at least making it to the security office. That’s the best solution by far, I think.

@Dadster

Pretty impressive work in your video, Text, considering just three weeks worth of part-time development work. It’s astounding.

I know it’s early on, but I tend to agree with Artic Xiongmao, in that some of the environments are crammed with too many objects and end up looking too busy. For example, the conference room has four bookcases joined together along one wall. I think two max would suffice. It’s the old adage where less can be observed as more.

Also, as a heads up, I saw a couple of instances where the mounting brackets for large pipes were adhered to the ground which had a grate on it, which looks kind of odd. Try using an appropriate pipe model whose mounting brackets can be attached to the wall. Looks more normal and neater.

I would agree with you if it affected gameplay. It doesn’t. I love the look and the feel of the conference room, I don’t plan on changing it. There are a few places where the clutter can harm gameplay, and I’ll tone it down there, but otherwise, nah. Less isn’t more. If less was more we’d still be playing HL1 for its graphics, with its bare hallways and empty corridors. My offices aren’t notably more cluttered than Black Mesa’s, anyway, check out the B map and you’ll see what I mean. There are places where it can stand to be reduced, however.

As for the mounting brackets…I’ll get right on it immediately, as soon as I’ve finished the other 2 levels.

@Artic Xiongmao

After watching the video, I can add that the whole chapter is far less confusing than in the original Half-Life, and also far more interesting than the Black Mesa rendition, both visually and gameplay-wise.

I especially liked that you made the crane room make sense. The crane control room is accesible directly, but the power is off. Great idea. Also, adding that iconic scene in which a battle happens above you while you crouch below the grates is phenomenal, although, as you said in the video itself, the battle needs some balancing. Electrifying the water is also a very neat idea; no need for making the office complex skippable. I would delete the barnacles though… the electrified water is danger enough.

However, the cafeteria is waaaay too bright. Realistic, maybe. But it clashes a lot with the rest. And you say that you will fill the corridors with more things… Please don’t! There’s already too much clutter in the chapter, generally. There’s no reason to add more, especially in the offices. The rooms themselves already have enough things in them, if not too much.

To refer to your comment earlier, the crates in the crane room are because the HECU have hidden a turret behind them. The Houndeyes’ sonic booms absolutely wreck the entire setup, though, I need to find a way to prevent that. It’s broken about 80% of the time.

I’ll probably remove the Barnacles too, I got kinda massively screwed over by them on the video.

And yeah, the Cafeteria is indeed way too bright. The bloom is excessive on it too. I was planning on turning it down but I simply forgot. Will do that next time.

I’ve already addressed my stance on clutter. My philosophy will be to have a little less in the offices, and a little bit more in the hallways. The hallways are undoubtedly too empty.

@Strider397

Was that song cut from BM? Never heard or seen it.

I said it on the video, but I’ll repeat it again I guess. It’s a song written for a community project by a gentleman called Dejan. IMO it’s by far the best of the selection and I really loved it and though it fit the scene brilliantly. It’s every bit as good as anything Joel wrote. I’ll have to find out how to obtain permission for the real release, however.

[Dragunov2]

By doing a suggestion, I forgot to say how marvelous this is!!!

[Dotard]

“ograsm”

[jessiestorm88]

Wow the office area looks great as does the crane area. I can’t wait to test these maps. As for the cafeteria I haven’t weighed in on it yet. I agree that having glass panes around it could end up looking really nice and a bit more natural. The area it’s in right now just seems very odd for a break room type area.

About the second tram sitting at the end behind another boom gate (those aren’t called toll gates by the way haha why would they have a toll system on their own transport system after all) that’s exactly what I was going to suggest. That way you don’t have to backtrack for your tram if you don’t want to.

Oh and the execution seen is a good addition. Honestly I think it would be really cool to have a survivor scientist hiding in one of the offices with a newly recorded speech. This could add a little bit more story having him talk about the hecu rounding up all the scientists in the office before executing them. I don’t think it would be too bad to have a scientist that sounds a bit different, but I guess it would come down to how good of a voice recording you could make or get from the community.

[Artic_Xiongmao]

After watching the video again, this time without audio to just focus on what’s on screen, I have some other suggestions. First, I would make the crane control room a little less crammed, personally. Widen it juuust a little bit. Also, I said what I said about the clutter after seeing the screenshots but before watching the video. After the video, I think it’s pretty much okay. I still wouldn’t add crates on the hallways, but oh well.

Also, what’s the logic behind the blue and white lights by the tracks, in the crane room? Are they there to signal that cargo is uploaded into the tram there? Because there are other rooms with that purpose in the whole chapter and those lights are, as far as I remember, only in your room there. A little out of place considering the general chapter design, that’s all.

And, shouldn’t the Blast Door after you solve the Crane puzzle open when you change the tracks, instead of when you actually go through the tracks with the tram? Is the old tram system that high-tech, really?

And I know you said the signs were placeholders, but the one about the toll-gates being overriden in the Office Complex 2nd floor are a bit too obvious, aren’t they? A bit to “gamey”, if you know what I mean. “Here’s your next objetive.” It’s not using the typical language used in signs. Also, the toll-gates there are not technically toll-gates. It’s fine for us to call it that, but the sign wouldn’t say that. The whole phrasing is a bit too coloquial, more like a note that someone put there than an official sign.

The room with the Black Screen of Death would look better with the computer as the only lighting. Blue lighting, only.

Is the folded rug in the room-in-construction a placeholder? From the side, it looks really iffy. The folds should be there, bit it’s just the normal rug texture.

Also, when you override the toll-gates on the second floor security room, the camera that lets you see what you did is in that old computer. Shouldn’t it be in the Security Room Console? That big computer on the wall. That’s usually how it’s shown throughout the game, although it’s another, newer console model.

Also, the battle you see through the grates. Maybe the open grate should be in front of you when you come down the stairs, instead of behind you? A lot of people would miss the iconic scene, I imagine, place there as it is.

Finally, is it just me, or is the big red light (at the maintainance room, after the below-the-grate fight) very distracting? It looks as if something should be pressed on that room to make something work, but that’s not it, right? That red light looks a bit superflous and confusing.

And… that’s it, really. And these are just little details. Otherwise it’s great. I know you don’t want to change the cafeteria at all, but since others are still defending the idea of putting some glass there, I will jump on the bandwagon.

[Chickenprotector]

@TextFAMGUY1

Well, the biggest problem with that is that again, if I have a second tram later on down the line, a player can just bypass the Office Complex. As the Office Complex is basically the focal point of the entire map, and considering how much effort I put into making it, I really don’t want people to be able to skip it - but at the same time I don’t want to frustrate the player by making them go all the way back to get the tram like I did in the video. That’s the dilemma.

A maintenance tunnel which only opens when the security is overridden (and leads back to the tram) seemed like a good idea, until I checked out the map on the editor. From the final straight back to the toll gates IN A STRAIGHT LINE, the distance is 3,400 units. It’s still a massively long way to go.

While I was writing that sentence I just had a stroke of genius, however, and I’m almost certainly going to implement it. I can have a tram sitting in a side area near the end of the level, like you said, mimicking being unloaded/loaded/whatever, but it too is sitting behind a toll gate, which is also only opened when the security system is overridden. This way a player who walks from the security office to near the end of the level doesn’t have to backtrack all the way to get their tram, but still cannot beat the level without at least making it to the security office. That’s the best solution by far, I think.

I just had a stroke of genius myself. When the player exits out into the nighttime vista (yours), why not have it be in an electrical substation?

Took some screens out of l4d2 for some comparisons. I don’t know how easily it can be done, but it’d be pretty fucking awesome if you could, it provides a shitload of cover and a lot of places for HECU to hide snipers, or ambushes.

[Vertigo]

@Artic Xiongmao

After watching the video, I can add that the whole chapter is far less confusing than in the original Half-Life, and also far more interesting than the Black Mesa rendition, both visually and gameplay-wise.

Very much agreed.

One issue for me, in the section where you need to activate the crane to progress: I don’t think the switch control console is quite obvious enough, it might help to add a coloured spotlight illuminating it (maybe make it visible through the window too?). Could change colour when the switch is activated, but I’m not sure if Source supports that. Or, have it be the only console in the bank with an active light.
I do love that the console’s LED changes according to the track direction though.

In the current build there’s also the issue of the rail and crane switches looking so similar (you never have to activate more than one console in the same bank in Black Mesa as far as I know), but in the commentary it says you’re planning on a more unusual, multifunction switch for the crane, so that shouldn’t be an problem once that’s done.
Normally the rail console’s prominence wouldn’t be an issue either, but most of the consoles throughout Black Mesa aren’t usable (especially early on IIRC), so the player’s trained to count them as part of the furniture. As you’ll have the crane control in the same place, it may not occur to players that there’s another switch up there.

One other thing is that the on-foot explory parts of the second map look like they might become easy to get lost in (won’t be able to tell for sure until I’m the one in the specs and goatee, I guess). Might be a good idea to place unique and memorable visual landmarks in places that you’ll be able to see later in the map (for example, when you’re on the gantries).

I’ll agree with what people are saying about a cafeteria (particularly such a large and nice one) being so close to the rail tracks. In my opinion it either needs to have a glass divider to the tracks, or to be a grotty little kiosk.

Regarding the HECU vs Vort fight you can watch from under the grate, and that they can’t shoot you through it, leading to them seeming a bit stupid when you pop out… how about making the surviving HECUs regroup in an adjoining room or corridor immediately after the fight? You could add a line of speech to that effect, so it’s clear they’re following orders rather than being idiots.

Regarding the issue of backtracking to find the tram at the end of the map, how about adding a ‘call tram’ button?

Anyway, generally speaking… as usual from you, OARU’s showing brilliant work at jaw-dropping pace.
I love all the HECU ambushes, they come off as properly smart opponents, a sense that’s often lacking in BM. That Doom 3-alpha-esque scientist-chomping bullsquid in the bathroom gave me happies, also. Wall of executions, corpse mysteriously pulled out of the corridor ahead of you… so many great touches already.

:Edit: One more thing… any chance we could have HECUs fighting zombies and headcrabs at some point? In Black Mesa you never see them in the same room at once (or not memorably, at least), it’s like they’re Clark Kent and Superman. Might be good to make this one of the first fights you come across, as they’re also the first enemies Gordon encounters, and including STU there are now quite a lot of HECU/Vort battles in the game.

[Dr_Twilight_Sparkle]

I know this is a little dumb, but… can we add both OaR uncut (When you done it) and ST uncut at the same time?

It will be nice to have both of these uncut chapters in the mod.

[halferuga]

Some great work you did! Amazing! That’s what people mean by “community content”

I have a small suggestion.
In the original Half-Life and Half-Life Source there was a small easter egg involving the ventilation vent underneath the HECU vs. Alien Slave fight. It was a level designer’s second name “Riller” embedded into the wall. Maybe you could insert your name into the vent in a similiar fashion?

P.S: Regarding the cafeteria issue, I think you really should make it mandatory to go through the Offices. The way to make it work may very well be placing a second tram somewhere out there. Maybe you could block the original tram by dropping some debris on the rails. Also, I think you can make the inability to walk through the water much more apparent if you make the rail go down deep into the water like in this picture (red silo door is on the upper-right corner)

[Dr_Twilight_Sparkle]

@Vertigo

Very much agreed.

One issue for me, in the section where you need to activate the crane to progress: I don’t think the switch control console is quite obvious enough, it might help to add a coloured spotlight illuminating it (maybe make it visible through the window too?). Could change colour when the switch is activated, but I’m not sure if Source supports that. Or, have it be the only console in the bank with an active light.
I do love that the console’s LED changes according to the track direction though.

In the current build there’s also the issue of the rail and crane switches looking so similar (you never have to activate more than one console in the same bank in Black Mesa as far as I know), but in the commentary it says you’re planning on a more unusual, multifunction switch for the crane, so that shouldn’t be an problem once that’s done.
Normally the rail console’s prominence wouldn’t be an issue either, but most of the consoles throughout Black Mesa aren’t usable (especially early on IIRC), so the player’s trained to count them as part of the furniture. As you’ll have the crane control in the same place, it may not occur to players that there’s another switch up there.

One other thing is that the on-foot explory parts of the second map look like they might become easy to get lost in (won’t be able to tell for sure until I’m the one in the specs and goatee, I guess). Might be a good idea to place unique and memorable visual landmarks in places that you’ll be able to see later in the map (for example, when you’re on the gantries).

I’ll agree with what people are saying about a cafeteria (particularly such a large and nice one) being so close to the rail tracks. In my opinion it either needs to have a glass divider to the tracks, or to be a grotty little kiosk.

Regarding the HECU vs Vort fight you can watch from under the grate, and that they can’t shoot you through it, leading to them seeming a bit stupid when you pop out… how about making the surviving HECUs regroup in an adjoining room or corridor immediately after the fight? You could add a line of speech to that effect, so it’s clear they’re following orders rather than being idiots.

Regarding the issue of backtracking to find the tram at the end of the map, how about adding a ‘call tram’ button?

Anyway, generally speaking… as usual from you, OARU’s showing brilliant work at jaw-dropping pace.
I love all the HECU ambushes, they come off as properly smart opponents, a sense that’s often lacking in BM. That Doom 3-alpha-esque scientist-chomping bullsquid in the bathroom gave me happies, also. Wall of executions, corpse mysteriously pulled out of the corridor ahead of you… so many great touches already.

:Edit: One more thing… any chance we could have HECUs fighting zombies and headcrabs at some point? In Black Mesa you never see them in the same room at once (or not memorably, at least), it’s like they’re Clark Kent and Superman. Might be good to make this one of the first fights you come across, as they’re also the first enemies Gordon encounters, and including STU there are now quite a lot of HECU/Vort battles in the game.

For a alpha gameplay, I already find these chapters to be very well done.

[Kaweebo]

I don’t mind the cafeteria area all that much. It’s a nice aesthetic region (for an underground tunnel, anyway) and where else would the workers there go to eat? Long way to travel just to get back up to Black Mesa’s main cafeterias.

[Strider397]

After watching the video again I find it hard that his is alpha or beta nice job. Thumbs up!!
I enjoyed seeing the HECU body get dragged into the room but noticed when you entered, his body was gibbed and in the back corner. what you should do is when rounding the corner into the room, you should have a zombie munching on him or even better have him munching on his head like when you see them doing to a scientist in UC.

Also noticed your blow dryers in the bathrooms where black not chrome.

[bur]

Looks fantastic! I haven’t read all the replies, but I definitely agree that it doesn’t need more stuff lying around. The hallways could do with some plants or something maybe, but their general emptiness adds to the atmosphere imo.

As for backtracking the office complex, as someone else said, you could have a door nearby that unlocks when the levers rise that leads directly to the tracks, with a tram.

[omegalucas]

@bur

As for backtracking the office complex, as someone else said, you could have a door nearby that unlocks when the levers rise that leads directly to the tracks, with a tram.

Either that or a vent, but keep the vent far from the ground on the side of the tracks so that it is inaccessible by that side (so that it can only be used to return - that way people can’t skip the office section), but having maybe some boxes below to reduce fall damage.

[Dragunov2]

Now, we just need to get our hands on it, so we can try it for ourselves

[TextFAMGUY1]

Regarding the backtracking problem - I’ve pretty much solved it. I’ll have a tram stashed away in a side area near the end. also covered over by a boom gate or whatever they’re supposed to be called. It works perfectly. The player has to get to the security office to open everything up, but can also walk to the end of the level without having to backtrack.