I actually like the fact that the outside area sees little action and I would most definitely like to see it unchanged (which, hey, it means no more work!).
It empowers the game atmosphere and it makes me feel like, for once, I can truly enjoy a beautiful scene.
Great work!
Hey I’ve been following your work for quite some time and I’m extraordinarily impressed.
After seeing the video, I actually had the biggest concern with the placement of the .50 cal encounter. To me, it makes so little sense for that to be in the same room as the explosive trap setup. The way you’ve set it up, exploding the track seems like it was an improvised move by the hecu, whereas a machine gun setup feels more like standard operating procedure. Plus, it’s a little nonsensical to be set up to shoot in a direction where you’ve already forced the player to assault from a different angle. The military tarp covering the encampment also seems a little silly underground.
What if instead the .50 cal encounter was in that nook where the sniper encounter is now? Then the blown up tracks and turret trap seems like the military’s insurance if things go wrong topside. That makes the sniper encounter moot, but I never considered that particular encounter iconic in my half-life play-throughs.
I love the expansiveness of the train yard, but I thought the sheer number of low power lines was really distracting. As far as I know, all of the black mesa trains are purely rail-powered; I didn’t see any light-rail style trains that would necessitate that sort of power line. With it being so built up, I question why there isn’t regular underground power. This is in stark contrast to the cave section, where I think the power lines between the lights works beautifully. This is a minor nitpick, especially for an alpha, but it stood out as one of the only decisions you’ve made that irked me (a testament to the fine work you’ve accomplished).
Overall, job well done and I look forward to a beta or full release and the excuse to re-download the mod and have at with OAR uncut, ST uncut 2.0, and maybe even the loop mod (shoutout .RK).
Okay, so people here are feeling like it’s a little bit dead? I hear that. Not gonna lie, I’m not happy to hear that, but if it’s a problem with the map then yeah, I will need to fix it. I can see why people would say that. There are ways to fix it, but not easily.
This sums up what the problem could be perceived as pretty well, I guess. But what do you suggest as the solution? I mean, if you think about it, most of On a Rail is really elaborate decoration for a few rail switches. You could probably speedrun OaR in the space of less than 15 minutes if you wanted to. It’s hard, trying to strike the right balance between exploration and linearity. Maybe I’ve gone too far towards the former. I’m not sure there’s anything I can do about the map seeming like “massive decorating for a little rail switch,” without fundamentally overhauling everything. I have no idea how I’d go about doing that. Suggestions on that would be welcome, I’m just drawing up blanks here.
I’m just gonna start brainstorming ideas as they come into my head here as I kinda agree that it’s a little bit dead.
There are things I can do to make the atmosphere feel less dead without the action happening directly to the player - and that is in the form of scripts happening in the distance. Wouldn’t mind hearing some ideas for these but here are some examples of things I can do:
-Convoy going past in the distance (looks like I might readd this, though I’ll need to find a way to make it less subtle, was pretty easy to miss before)
-Distant explosions/fighting
-More flybys
Um, that’s actually all I can really think of!
Alternatively, I could just throw in a few more battles between NPCs or more outdoor fights with the HECU. I dunno though, I feel like more Vort vs HECU battles would just be a bit dull at this point, especially as the conflict isn’t at its high point yet. I wouldn’t mind putting some HECU at various points on the clifftop but the problem is that at this point in the game you have no good ranged weapons for dealing with them. The .357 is subpar for this job. It would be kinda frustrating.
Would you guys like more hidden goodies and little things to find? Would that help?
Another thing which could help make it feel a bit less dead is to use the full piece of music from Dejan (2:30 up from 40 seconds), something I was already considering doing anyway. Any opposition to this idea? Could just help give the outdoor area more of an atmosphere.
Map transitions between Source levels need to have a fairly simple “transitional area,” so that you don’t have vast numbers of entities being transferred between levels (which also causes overlapping of entities and hence wasted limits), which the engine hates. You’ll notice every transition in all of OaR takes place in a small tunnel for this very reason. It’s possible to split the map, but not particularly useful.
Bearing this transitional area thing in mind, one place to split it could be the tunnel just before the warehouse. But what do I do with that segment? I can’t add it to B1, B1’s full. Making it its own map would be useless, and would stick out like a sore thumb as a 30 second level. Other than that there is literally nowhere else to split the level. The only option which I can think of, which I may consider doing, is taking the ending section (the broken turntable from the top) and moving it into the C map. I don’t think the C map is completely full yet. This is still more of a last resort than anything, though.
I know that B2 is kinda begging to be filled with stuff. But it’s at the entity and brush limits. It just can’t be. It also already runs like shite. More stuff would just make that worse.
The other way to sort out this issue which I can think of would be to fundamentally overhaul the way the player paths through the level, making the expansive areas have a “point”. I have absolutely no idea how to go about doing that though, none whatsoever.
I’m using the lighting scheme set by the BM Devs. All the “white” lampposts in Black Mesa are really small, way too small for the purposes of a vast outdoor area. The yellow glow of the lamppost is baked into the lamppost model, it would look weird if there was a white light coming off it.
This could work, I think I might do that. Would help make the outdoor area seem less barren. There is the question as to where the setup would go. I’m not sure the Sniper area is the best place for it. I’ll play around with it. Maybe to the left of the rail yard where there is basically nothing at the moment.
As for the power lines, they’re a visual decision. The map looks A LOT barer without them. They provide a bit of vertical filler. Plus there are lights mounted on nearly all of them, which need to be there regardless of power lines or not. Perhaps they are a tad excessive, but I dunno, I kinda like them.
Anyone else have any thoughts on these?
I appreciate the feedback from everyone though, thank you. Though it kinda hurts bad to hear the negative comments, it’s for the best. It all goes towards making it better. Hearing some suggestions might be nice though, so far there haven’t been many of them! I’m a little stuck for ideas.
Aaauuuuhhhh, I was really looking forward to a massive battle on the horizon. Anyways looks amazing cant wait to play.
couple of things
Edit: ^ I also agree the rail yard does feel a bit…“dead”. maybe you just need to tweak some enemy encounters have a couple soldiers run out from behind some shipping containers or by the crane , center loading dock, saying “THERE HE IS” or “GET HIM” are there lines recorded like that. Have a couple headcrabs in amongst your hidden goodies. Maybe 2 soldiers vs 1 houndeye, small squads squashing little resistance that sort of thing.
PS adding hidden goodies are a good thing but I feel it can be annoying, adding more could start to feel like a scavenger hunt. but that’s me.
AHHHHHHHHHH.
Nope, I have not looked at any of the media yet. I am not going to jeopardize that blind run I’ll be doing for B2 feedback.
…Except I really really really really want to look at the media. Thissucksonice.jpg. :I
Can someone like PM me when the alpha comes out or something? I don’t want to risk blowing it everytime I visit this thread :I
Hallo!
What if the generator powering the track authority and switching mechanism was blown up but there is a back up generator. At the time you get there it is non operational (possibly sabotaged by hecu - after all they want to impede your forthcoming). So you have to find a spare battery for the sparking unit or another piece of tech to get it running. So you run around the trainyard or even the warehouse to find such a part.
The sense in having a large transitional area for logistics would stay inherent. But it would be clear the marines have done a good job in obstructing your path. Plus more exploration needed, which is perfect for a large area!
Concerning the improvised bunker - it does make sense. The bunker has oversight over the tram pad, which was the most likely way freeman would take. But a bunker makes more sense if you suppress enemy movement in order to take em out (ergo mines and tank obstacles on a D-Day beach, barbed wire in front of machine gun posts, etc.).
As you have encountered in your video, the turrets impede your movement capabilities and triggering the explosives would tip out any marine post to your presence. So it actually does make sense. In the original hl it was contrarily senseless to provide cover for incoming enemy. A machine gun in a window limits its oversight and effective capabilities. That really makes no sense. A sniper in a window is what I would set up.
Overall I think you have done a very neat piece of work here. Chapeau!
Oh my god… the outdoor area… it looks extremely perfect and realistic…!! maybe add another helicopter fly-by when you proceede more over the area…
I thought of 2 potential scripts which could help make your immediate surroundings feel a bit more active without adding too much in the way of action.
As you emerge from the warehouse, a tram with 2 HECU on it comes out from the tunnel system to your far left, and goes to park itself in the train yard. Of course as it’s moving towards you the HECU are shooting at you. If I really wanted to make things snazzy I could put a TOW/50 Cal on the front of the tram. This is a pretty cool script I think which gives the trainyard a bit more of a gameplay purpose.
A Guard in a security jeep drives past you at some point, being chased by HECU. He accelerates to try to break though one of the gates to the outdoor world, but is killed by the pursuing HECU. The jeep crashes into the gate, damaging it but not breaking it. The pursuing HECU then naturally turn on you.
Thoughts? I’m probably going to add both of these. These 2 scripts, plus the distant convoy which I re-added, and another distant flyby of an Osprey, should hopefully make the outdoor area seems alive without being crazy action packed. I’m also going to move the 50 Cal emplacement from the interior tunnels out to where the Sniper currently is, as Doltman suggested. It’s a good idea, and it allows me to make the Sniper scene more interesting by replacing it with something better.
Edit: Here’s another neat one - how about a flare being shot into the sky in the distance? Could be pretty neat - and could be considered the “spiritual successor” to Chickenprot’s idea. Maybe some point after that a helicopter flies off in that direction.
I was just about to propose the thing with flare in the sky 
Other ideas you wrote about are fantastic as well.
I personally LOVE the flare idea. I came on this thread just to suggest that. The jeep one sounds a tad bit over the top, but really I will judge it when I see it. The tram with the HECU has been used a lot, however, with the 50 cal, i think it would be fairly interesting. All of these scripts would make the place seem very much alive. But remember that this is still “the calm before the storm”, so don’t make it continuously action packed as you move through the map. Make it a little hectic when you first arrive, but then let it calm. That way, people can still appreciate the calm yet stunning outdoors.
The improvised bunker should have two 50 cal. emplacements instead of one. I makes it more of a challenge to tackle straight on, similar to the HL1 version, yet still possible to take out with well placed explosives, thus serving as a proper spiritual successor to the autogun.
Actually, I would be okay with a slight reduction of size of the accessible map in favor of a more rich outdoors area. A lot of it doesn’t serve much gameplay purpose anyways, and a lot of the beauty lies in the skybox. You can still have scale, just scale of which is perhaps inaccessible, thus allowing less attention to detail there, and focusing your entities on the remainder of your map, if that makes any sense. Anyways, congratulations on your first reveal of the final map of OAR uncut. It was an absolute joy to watch that commentary. Thank you for all of your work.
Thought: If the outside area in its current state feels dead, why not make that feeling much more literal, and litter it with more dead worker/guard ragdolls? You could make it look as if the HECU have already cleared through the area, and let Black Mesa’s C map give the impression that they all flocked to the rocket.
I personally like how the outdoors area has a minimal amount of action. The action doesn’t always have to be proportionate to the size of the area.
Liking your ideas Text.
Why not place death bodies on the yard?
So it seems like u just missed a big fight!
I guess u can skip the little indoor part aswell, just the first part after the big yard, cause u don’t need the tram to get in the building with the sniper on your left (I hope u understand this)
Can u change this so u are forced to take the indoor area (those with the vorts)?
Thanks!
Holy hell Text, looks like I’ll be testing this to the maximum when I get the chance to.
I mean damn, this is BM Devs work you are doing which I will summarize in 3 words: EYE F**KING CANDY.
Oh, and about the ideas you posted, I give you my opinion on it:
If you can actually pull this off, then go for it. It gives the HECU a mobilization feeling and that they are moving to secure the facility as soon as possible. Also, it uses the tram, which is OAR in a nutshell.
This is very unusual, but has the potential to look goddamn awesome if I say so.
In other words, it’s up to you. Both ideas are great and have this epic feeling in OAR.
Possibility we can use the freighter train?
Just got up and watched the media release, hot damn is all I gotta say. Everyone else had covered what I wanted to say.
As for the moving the transitions, is it possible to move around some of the B1/A1 transitions and include them into the Dev’s map(s) if they aren’t at the entity/brush limits? I mean you did tweek it, so why not?
I really love what you’ve done with the freight yard, Text, this is the perfect addition to the OaR chapter. Still as others pointed out, one or two events would be welcomed, as long as they don’t disturb too much the general ambiance of the place (the calm before the storm, as you said).
I do like the two scripted events you just proposed as well as the convoy sighting that was discussed before, as long it’s it doesn’t crash Source. :fffuuu:
Still for this limit issue, I agree you should try to move some parts into C as long as it’s possible.
For the .50 cal emplacement, I think too it would be good to have it waiting at the end of the yard before we get back inside. Now here’s an idea to make this encounter a bit more interesting:
Since it would be possible to easily escape this ambush by letting the tram ride into the tunnel, why not having a power outage in the whole area as the tram reach the door? I believe procedure for such doors would have them automatically shut down, and that would be the signal for the .50 cal marine to start shooting. Also, having the whole yard with lights out would be quite some sight, and that would force players to use the flashlight to reach the power generators and switch them back on.
Then, as you get out of the generators’ area, have the sniper shooting at you from some elevated place. One thing I recall about that sniper in HL was that he doesn’t start shooting at you until you reached the launch pad’s blast doors, or when you get back to the tracks, thus creating a bit of surprise. Even if my whole idea is not possible, keep in mind that surprise effect from the sniper, I believe that was his main purpose in the original map.
One last suggestion though it is minor:
For the moving crates tunnel, it would make it a bit more coherent to have at its entrance some custom sign reminding the crate transit here, and that trains have to remain stationary while the light is on, and have this one shut down, suggesting some malfunction, to force players to move on. That can also be an hint of the coming ambush.
Hey Text, awesome to see things are rolling along nicely! I love the screenshots for B2!! I started watching the video you uploaded, but couldn’t bring myself to, not yet anyway. I’ll wait and let your work be an awesome surprise as I play it for myself 
Thanks for all your hard work over these many many months, I think it’s safe to say, we all appreciate your efforts!
This is definitely my favourite of the 2. The 2nd feels a little over the top I have to say, as much as the conflicted piece of me would like to see it.
Like the flare bit as well.
Cant wait to see the bit you re-added.
This is my favorite, too. The second one seems kind of silly to me and wouldn’t look too natural, I think.
Anyway, you have done an excellent job making B2. I just feel that the track played when you first go outside could be a little bit longer. Nothing major, though.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.