Just a thought. Might be a good place to stick those underused NVG grunts.
^^This
I’m all for showing an escalation in the war and displaying the trouble the HECU is having (you have done an incredible job so far), but lets give the player some one-on-one time, shall we? 
However if the way you have set it up makes the HECU too OP for the player to take one without them being distracted, then keep the vorts.
Progress update!
Map’s finally compiled and in-game, leak free, and ready for lighting/detailing/scripting pass. Exciting stuff, as we move closer to next Saturday’s alpha release. Already done pretty well with scripting the turntable room fight, in fact the scripting has so far turned out to be MUCH easier than I expected. I already got a pretty good implementation of the flare throwing, which I thought would be much tougher. It’s looking good so far. I’m definitely well on track for Alpha release. The only thing I’m having major problems with at the moment is getting the NPCs to rappel/jump properly. My plan is to have them jump down from a fairly high ledge but trying to force their AI to do it really doesn’t appear to work. I may have to result to drastic measures (as in Marines trapped inside an invisible moving box while looping a jumping animation), to solve it. It sounds dumb as fuck, but it should work just fine if I have to do it. I’d prefer to get their AI to do it, but we’ll see.
Having a meeting with my composer today, as well as with the guitarist. Still further developing this song, which I’m hoping we’ll have finished and 100% ready for next Saturday.
I might throw out some media shots once the lighting pass is done, which should be in a couple days. I am going to be a bit less tight lipped about my media with the B maps, than I was for the A maps, as this isn’t really like the first big “media release,” anymore. That’s the only reason I delayed media of the A maps for so long, it was kind of like the first big reveal. Not so anymore. It’s looking pretty good though.
We’ll see. The fight will be a bit empty without something else to liven up the fun, especially now it’s a song moment.
^ Well if it must have something different… if the piece is correct for it, see if you can have the ambush transition with the music. The beginning being primarily rock, you kill the marines, transitions to Marines vs vorts and an equal mixture of techno/guitar, then transitions to primarily techno while you kill a wave a few waves of Xenains?
Hmm…in that case, keep the vorts. Atmosphere>everything in this case 
just have a osprey spawn in drop the soldiers and vanish.
Glad to see you’re making progress, and to hear that we’re a week away from the alpha already, damn!
Onto the issue with the Soldiers, you should definitely consider having them rappel down the wall like this from an upper ledge. From a gameplay standpoint, it’s very noisy which would definitely alert the player, and design wise it’s good because you don’t have to hide the origin of the soldiers since the entire scene is fully animated (unlike fast-roping which requires you to hide the starting point).
Funnily enough, after about 3 hours of messing around (the longest bit of small work I’ve done on B1 thus far), I ended up using a method which is basically a slightly hackier version of this. Rather than having the rope parented to his hand attachment, I have it parented to an invisible lift which moves down with him. It appears to be a more reliable method, Black Mesa’s Marine attachments don’t seem too happy to have the rope on them. Unless I got the attachment names wrong, I was using HL2 Combine’s, as I don’t know how to find out otherwise. It looks good, and I managed to get everything set up to be the perfect height. Now the issue is making the rappelling Marines stand out in the relative dark, at the moment they’re way too hidden.
Tested the Turntable Room Ambush with lighting and new song draft today, I got shivers down my spine the first time. The scene and song are still very rough but I see the potential, I’m very excited to get them both sorted out. They’re still both getting honed, but it’s gonna be awesome, I think. Hopefully kicking some life into an already memorable location, kind of like the QE Ambush did. I do hope I’m not overstating my excitement for this scene, it’s be a shame to build peoples’ hopes up too high. Still, got a lot of work done today, and the lighting style used for the B maps is looking good so far, based on what little I’ve done. Most of the map is scripted, there are only 2 scenes which haven’t been scripted yet - the dynamite collapsing ceiling scene (majorly putting this one off!) and the lift fight at the end of the map.
I fucking LOVE indoor Ospreys!
Well if you’d like, you can take a look at it. It’d be less hackish, I can’t say what’s better because I have not seen your version, but I’m 99% sure the HECU Soldiers are fully animated for that jump I described since the Devs just copied the EP2 Combine Soldier’s animations over, plus I’m pretty sure I’ve seen the animation in the model viewer.
About the ambush, I was thinking about the ambush room. Rather than an obvious advantage (arrive behind a .50), what if it just ‘ruined’ the ambush? They were expecting soldiers to arrive on that tram, so they would set up facing the direction they expect you to come from. If you arrive on the Soldier train, you’d arrive on their flank and throw their entire plan off, changing how the ambush goes down by giving you the jump on them instead of vice-versa (then getting the drop on you). If you’re fast enough you can even take out a Soldier or two before they can react .
As for initiating the ambush, perhaps a gun cock (could use the “use mounted gun” sound from HL2), then the lights go out and flares go up, and after that the soldiers jump out of cover and begin the ambush. There are animations you can use (under “leanwall”) for Soldiers stacking up behind walls and popping out into a combat ready position, which would fit perfect for the ambush scenario. It’d also be nice because if you arrive on the Soldier Tram, you’ll see some of them positioned behind crates like this rather than standing idle staring at the crate.
The animation works just fine, it’s just the rope that doesn’t co-operate very well. The animations are the same but I suspect the attachment names are not as the rope doesn’t work properly when I parent it to their left hand. As I said, no big deal, I’m using my hackish solution currently. Not a problem for now.
The problem with your idea for the ambush, is that, while it’s an alright idea, it would ultimately probably provide the player with a bit too much of an advantage. 1 or 2 free kills is too many. Besides, the way the room is set up is so that the HECU encampment is really facing BOTH entrances - it’s also a logical and sensible way to set up that kind of trap. I’d like to avoid instances of portraying the HECU as incompetent, if possible! Black Mesa’s already done enough damage to them as it is.
The way it works just now is probably just fine, though there’s plenty of room to expand on it later if necessary. If you approach from the old tram you have 3 options. 1 - roam around the lower levels trying to pick them off from weird angles. Risky. 2 - head over to the 50 Cal, probably taking quite a bit of fire in the process as you have to cross open ground briefly. 3 - Be manly and head up to their position. If you approach from the old tram you’re also met with a sentry which wouldn’t otherwise bother you. That’s the only way I’ll have the tram influence the battle just yet. It makes a difference, but it’s not massive. You can still pretty easily reach the 50 Cal.
As for the ambush start, I’ve already got that sorted. They’re all crouched, poised and ready behind boxes, and the moment they take fire or you set off the trigger, they’ll pop up, the lights will go out, they’ll throw flares at you, and start engaging. Works a charm.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean with the ropes and attachments, I have very basic hammer knowledge but I don’t make maps, so I’m not that savvy. But if I understand the rest correctly, they come down in the standard HL2 Rappel Animation, but slowly like in HL1, riding an npc_clip?
You make a very good point, every entrance to the outpost should be fully secured, especially when your enemy can teleport in anywhere at any time. Perhaps the Military Tram could have some military crates on it which may serve as cover? I don’t know if this is possible or not.
This sounds good, I was just trying to offer other ideas which may or may not fit in with the current design. The only thing that slightly bothers me if the .50 being pointed back into their own base, which is quite unusual, but that’s how it was in Half-Life. But I’ve only seen it on paper, I’ve not seen the finished design for myself yet, so I’ll refrain from forming an opinion until I see it in action for myself.
I remembered awhile back you mentioned not being sure on how to start the ambush, so I figured I’d offer some (very late) suggestions. What you came up with good, I just figured that if you needed an audio cue, the sound of a gun being cocked would immediately alert the player, because they would then realise the lights going out wasn’t accidental.
I still think you should use the leanwall animations for one or 2 of them, they look cool. (that’s pretty much my main motivation for suggesting them) 
Thank you for taking the time to inform us on what’s going on and respond to my suggestions, I look forward to seeing the next map in all it’s tunnel-shooty glory!
I found this funnier than I probably should have, don’t know why.
I actually second this idea. The logic behind it is pretty sound and it would at least let the player be able to react as the lights go out. Considering the AI can see in the dark if the player can’t figure out what’s going on they are sure to take damage/die once the lights go out and they can’t see.
I have a feeling that the AIs insane reaction time and accuracy is going to be frustratingly challenging in this ambush if the vorts don’t get involved. Especially since the player cannot actually see what s/he’s shooting at 
I lol’d
No, sorry, I’ve explained it badly. I assumed for some reason you knew what I was talking about. The rappelling looks just fine, the rope looks just fine, the animation looks just fine. Unlike with the rappelling animation when they drop from an Osprey/high place (like the QE Ambush, a purely vertical rappel), where the animating and rope creation/destruction is done by their AI at runtime, rappelling down walls is done by the mapper - he specifies the animation, creates the rope, determines how it behaves. I was having trouble getting the rope to attach to the Marine’s hand (called an “attachment”), so I used a bit of a cheat method, which looks just fine. That’s all.
It’s very doable, and an interesting idea. I’ll give it a test. My only concern is that if you carry this tram through the turntable room, it will actually be your tram right until the end of On a Rail. I get the feeling that might be a bit too advantageous. I’d have to make the player get separated from their tram AGAIN, which might be asking a bit too much.
It’s the same in my version. The 50 Cal pointing into their base doesn’t really make any sense at all, especially seeing as they’ve basically got 2 50’s pointing at one another. There ain’t much I can do about this, sadly, it’s a design flaw that I think players will just have to suspend disbelief for. There isn’t anywhere on that level I can put the 50 Cal which would make sense from a realism standpoint AND be useful to the player. However my 50 Cal might make a bit more sense than HL1’s, because it IS pointing at the exit to the turntable room which the player eventually has to take (leading to the tram lift with a cargo lift too, which reach the surface). You could say it’s a heavily used tunnel or something, they wanted to have a turret just for that tunnel as a result.
I currently have a Marine shouting something or other (can’t remember exactly what off the top of my head), and the flares are thrown at you about 2.5 seconds after the lights go down. There -should- (emphasis on should) be enough there too alert the player to an ambush. I can throw in a gun cocking though, might be cool. I’ll also throw in a leanwall animation somewhere, though it’s unlikely the player will be able to see it.
Well, so far during my tests, it HAS been difficult, but I’d say it’s still probably easier than the QE Ambush. The Marines are all NVG Marines, so it actually IS possible to see them in the dark - their green eyes stick out pretty massively. It’s actually helped a lot to balance that fight. It also isn’t pitch black, not at all. Pretty much the whole room (save a few dark shadows) is bathed in a dim red light. It’s pretty eerie. It’s still very possible to see their silhouettes.
The initial versions of the fight were way too short, so I gave the Marines standoff AI with aggression set to low. Because you’re facing 5 Marines at once (initially) in a very exposed location, I had to try and find a non-cheesy way of making it easier/longer, and this has worked well. The first wave is quite a challenge. They’re very defensive - they keep to their cover pretty strictly, only running out on rare occasions, and they basically peek when they think you’re not looking, and immediately duck back in if you start firing at them. It works pretty well, improves the gameplay, and makes sense most of all. If they have you in a disadvantageous position (lower section of the room), they have the sight advantage (NVGs), it stands to reason they would probably play it safe. Rushing at you in the dark works to your favour, so from an in-universe perspective you could say they were being smart and playing the odds. I like that. It’s not something you ever see the HECU doing during Black Mesa either, so it could be a rare instance of the HECU being tactically intelligent. Though I haven’t yet, I’ll probably program 1 of the Marines to rush down the stairs at you about 10 seconds into the fight, and one of them already rushes over to their 50 Cal 7 seconds into the fight.
My biggest problem at the moment is making the rappelling Marines stand out a LOT more, because currently they’re nearly invisible. It’s very hard to notice them slipping down in the middle of the fight. How I’m going to do this I really don’t know, but I need to think of something. I think I’ll probably have the top floor that they come from illuminated somehow as well. Maybe there’s a forklift that someone left on whose headlights lights up the walls on the top floor, allowing them to silhouette better when they rappel.
Maybe have the rappelling marines shout out “Go, go, go!” (I’m pretty sure that’s standard dialogue)?
Or have the marines that are already there take cover and lay down suppressing fire on you, forcing you to stop attacking them and giving you the time to check out the new marines.
I remember Valve’s philosophy on this kind of thing is to “guide” the player to look at the desired location through scripted sequences.
Don’t worry, I know some things about Hammer and what it can do, but I don’t have any real experience with it. I understand exactly what you mean now. If you’d like, maybe this will help, the third post from the bottom has some info on ropes. Some of the other ones do to, but they don’t look as detailed. I did the tutorial myself as someone who’s almost clueless with actual mapping (the difference between knowing what a plane can do, and flying one yourself) and managed to get the rappel to work, haven’t tried it with ropes yet so if you’d like, go ahead. Of course if it looks fine as it is, then there’s no reason to mess with it right? I just thought I’d try to help.
Maybe when the tram is on the turntable, the turntable moves the tram into a hook that knocks the crates off? I dunno if it’s worth the work, cool and functional as it would be. I just thought it’d be neat to give the player a cover advantage and it would give the tram a purpose (being a resupply tram).
That’s understandable. I guess the player will just have to assume that they pointed a .50 into their base incase something big teleports in, they already have reports of Gargs appearing, maybe they thought a .50 BMG would take one down if it plops in
Maybe if you don’t want the player to camp the .50 the entire fight, you could give it limited ammo (this is possible if I’m not mistaken?). Also this is sorta off topic, but are the accuracy and damage on the mounted gun set by the mapper? I hated how in Black Mesa, the mounted guns had worse accuracy than the goddamn Shotgun!
One of the reasons I suggested the gun cock was because it makes them look a bit more competent. It’s the difference between one soldier forgetting to cock his weapon, and the soldiers intentionally giving themselves away before initiating combat. It’s also good if anyone has a sound pack, because the sounds might not match up perfectly.
First off, that fight sounds AMAZING. I greatly look forward to seeing it for myself. As for the guy who rushes you, you must make him a Shotgunner. They are the only ones who should even think twice about charging in.
That sounds like a good idea. I’d assumed the rather loud roping sounds would give it away, but making it more noticeable certainly won’t hurt. It could look really cool as well.
Progress report:
Still progressing well on the mapping front. I’m tidying up loose ends before I go deep into the detailing phase. One of them today has been the dynamite scene, which basically occurs after you leave the rocket silo on B. I’ve been putting it off for ages because it’s a pain in the arse, but today I did a pretty major redesign of that area and I’m very pleased with how it’s turned out. I wasn’t expecting to change it, so it’s nice to finally be happy with a part of the map I had previously had many reservations about. It’s been expanded a lot, too.
Only one bit of major design left, and that’s the long track section bridging the D and E maps (the one in HL1 with the sentry turrets after you leave the silo).
Still well on track for the alpha on Saturday. By tomorrow evening or Wednesday all the scripting and basic design will be finished, then it’s just lighting, detailing, and testing.
Good idea, I’ve already implemented that. Just another subtle cue.
The main issue is visibility. They’re nearly invisible. While it may sound like they’re ninjas or something, which might be cool, it doesn’t work well from a gameplay perspective. My spotlights / headlights idea for illuminating the upper wall didn’t work well, it kinda kills the mood of the whole room. I may have to resort to simply using invisible reddish lights around that area to improve visibility where I want. That shouldn’t be too bad, the BM Devs actually did this in several places in OaR too. If you have a VERY dim dark coloured light it can still make a big difference without being noticeable by the player.
I wouldn’t worry about the rappelling, it works just fine!
This is something that could potentially be worked on in future builds, if people feel it’s a bit empty or something - which I don’t think will be a complaint. This is a pretty content dense map, perhaps as much so as A2, if not more. I’m already at a much higher brush count than A2.
It’s one of those weird things that doesn’t make sense much if you think about it - but most people won’t think about it. I think it’s a weird flaw in the realism that the vast majority of people would be willing to let go in the name of gameplay.
I was debating this strongly, pretty much every stat the 50 Cal has is tweakable (aside from it being annoyingly difficult to grab hold of). Many times while testing this fight I’ve been needing to make accurate shots (for example when a part of the Marine sticks out from behind a box), and just cursed the 50 Cal for being so damn crap. I think the fact remains however, that the 50 is actually (sadly) pretty balanced for this purpose, as much as I’d like to change it.
What I mean is, for this scene, it’s good enough that you’ll want to use it for a bit, but bad enough that you probably won’t camp there for the whole fight, encouraging use of tactical assets and on the fly decision making.
It has enough benefits to be worthwhile, and enough drawbacks to not be relied on 100%. Tag em once or twice and they blow into a million pieces, but good luck landing those shots. You also get infinite ammo. But still, it’s useless at hitting a well positioned Marine, so you’re gonna need to move from that. This fact should prevent people from camping the 50 Cal all fight, but also make them use it at least for a bit.
So, I’ve ultimately decided against that, unless there are many major objections. It’s stupidly inaccurate, and nothing like as fun to use as HL1’s 50s, but…it works. I’d love to change it, but I don’t think it would work.
Could work. Any subtle visual and audio cues will work well.
Sure. Good idea, no question.
There are no loud roping sounds. Even if there were, don’t forget there’s gunfire everywhere and a song playing too. It would probably get lost in the process. The cue needs to be visual for this one.
^ How far underground is Gordon at this point? If you can have a hole of some sort in the roof, be it a crane’s thing or a lift, or something to make it reasonable, you may be able to let the light in provided you have the ability to do so and you aren’t at the brush/entity limit. You can have the moon provide a soft light into the room and illuminate things. It MIGHT not kill the mood as much.
The draw back to this however is that you need to import the skybox from B2.
Gordon is 2 levels underground at this point. It was actually my initial plan to have some form of a skylight which lit the room which the Marines would initially rappel down, but as the design of the room progressed it became less and less feasible. So in the end, I just made it have several extra floors the Marines come from. It’s ultimately more complicated than the skylight would have been, but it’s more feasible.
The lift just after this room actually has a skylight which allows you to see the outside world. It could be considered a “reward” for making it through the turntable ambush.