On A Rail Uncut - Re-Adding Cut Areas/Scenes (Expansion Project)

General Development Source 1
#1861

Hey Text, and all other forum dwellers.

I’ve run through your latest iteration of OaR Uncut B2 map once. As usual, the work is top-notch Text. Here’s my feedback pointing out some issues that I came across. To address your previous concerns, I’ve endeavored to be less thorough, and not dwell on the very minor stuff. To that end, I’ve not listed dozens of issues that I would normally in the past. Once again, and as usual, act on what you think merits correcting.

Feedback For OaR Uncut Map B2 Alpha

  1. At level start, there are a couple of fence posts with texture z-fighting issues, this one https://i.imgur.com/U6YJlvn.jpg and this one https://i.imgur.com/Rx6k6ns.jpg. See attached images 1 and 2 below.
  2. At level start, the orientation of these two tunnel ceiling lights https://i.imgur.com/MK8LZ5E.jpg differs from the others https://i.imgur.com/FuZqu73.jpg. They should both be rotated 180 degrees.
  3. Consider shifting this fluorescent light https://i.imgur.com/JVXJk3r.jpg to the right, in order to eliminate the overhang on its left end https://i.imgur.com/C5BAjTJ.jpg
  4. Some of these military crates https://i.imgur.com/hSzqfFz.jpg are floating above the ground https://i.imgur.com/cPUMKKK.jpg. The same applies to several other objects in this area, including the nearby bundle of i-beams.
  5. There’s a nasty texture z-fighting issue here https://i.imgur.com/aYHsB25.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/TPg3cJM.jpg
  6. Consider shifting this fluorescent light https://i.imgur.com/i4qCB7O.jpg to the left, in order to eliminate the overhang on its right end https://i.imgur.com/kEQFkfw.jpg
  7. In the freight staging area, the working elevator platform has numerous issues:
    a) It’s too wide, so it causes clipping issues on its left side https://i.imgur.com/tp4fKsL.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/UzV9iKY.jpg and on its right side https://i.imgur.com/1eUM6fD.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/HA1LlHq.jpg
    b) It’s too deep, so it clips through the rear wall https://i.imgur.com/yh1rMzD.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/Phqy7QC.jpg.
    c) It rises too high, so it’s not level with the floor above https://i.imgur.com/Phqy7QC.jpg
    d) The platform piston has no texture on it, and the rear raise/lower rails don’t extend to the ground https://i.imgur.com/o1lDgcs.jpg
  8. In this corner https://i.imgur.com/9wXSxPL.jpg, there’s a couple of posts clipping through the wall https://i.imgur.com/iup5VZV.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/2kDGKuX.jpg
  9. This light https://i.imgur.com/wOUEQui.jpg does not contact the wall https://i.imgur.com/Lzl7jrD.jpg
  10. This light https://i.imgur.com/dm5WCp3.jpg also does not contact the wall https://i.imgur.com/JrLxnka.jpg
  11. I suspect these other two same-type lights may not be contacting the wall either https://i.imgur.com/XY8doQK.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/gkLfgVc.jpg
  12. One of these military crates https://i.imgur.com/qyRbN0S.jpg clips into the upper wall trim https://i.imgur.com/f3R7hAe.jpg
  13. Within this same area, there are several items floating above the ground. A couple of examples are this truck https://i.imgur.com/1NDmATz.jpg and the adjacent bundle of i-beams https://i.imgur.com/LunXICX.jpg
  14. For the upper security office:
    a) This military crate https://i.imgur.com/vDqftSh.jpg clips into the steel shelving https://i.imgur.com/fAeiKXx.jpg
    b) The mounting rods from the fluorescent light below the office, clip through the floor https://i.imgur.com/RZQHAYx.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/I4RgfeA.jpg
    c) Consider moving these control boxes closer to the wall https://i.imgur.com/PFcQjCL.jpg
  15. In the rail yard area, the lighting on this barrier post is really fugly https://i.imgur.com/001e76j.jpg
  16. Is the security fencing around the base of the crane https://i.imgur.com/OryJxB9.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/toS9ih6.jpg actually necessary? It looks pretty and all, but the backside of this area is unsecured and allows free access https://i.imgur.com/KAlS1dO.jpg. Doesn’t make sense. Want to reduce some resources, there you go.
  17. Consider reducing the scanning arc on this security camera https://i.imgur.com/bUqphhQ.jpg to around 90 degrees. Presently, it ends up monitoring the nearby wall https://i.imgur.com/GwnGy0T.jpg
  18. Common sense wise, consider placing a light (not necessarily illuminated) and a chair inside the security hut https://i.imgur.com/CbAlo7F.jpg
  19. In the train yard security office:
    a) Some of these grenades https://i.imgur.com/VkXA8Ow.jpg clip through the crate https://i.imgur.com/Ol96FS4.jpg
    b) Consider moving these control boxes closer to the wall https://i.imgur.com/Z3sA5l1.jpg
    c) The left-most monitor https://i.imgur.com/VLf11dq.jpg clips into the wall https://i.imgur.com/lVZkuPt.jpg
  20. This large spool of industrial wire https://i.imgur.com/eJ7lDHz.jpg is floating above the ground https://i.imgur.com/THTsMvo.jpg. The other two in the train yard are fine.
  21. Consider repositioning this floodlight https://i.imgur.com/MC9lwF9.jpg and utilizing the mounting bracket that it has, so that it doesn’t clip through the handrail https://i.imgur.com/tCebdad.jpg. The same with this one https://i.imgur.com/X84CR8x.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/t6qlPNw.jpg and this other one https://i.imgur.com/wwSzGXc.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/SSa3cAt.jpg
  22. This hand pallet truck appears to be quite low https://i.imgur.com/CDZ3zcr.jpg compared to others I’ve seen throughout BMS. Its tires also seem a bit flat https://i.imgur.com/EvNuuSi.jpg
  23. In the train yard, there are numerous instances of wall lights floating in mid air. A couple of examples are this one https://i.imgur.com/oeSW7a8.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/PIKBOk1.jpg and this one https://i.imgur.com/Eh9LN0U.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/G5GVjO5.jpg
  24. For consistency, consider replacing this door https://i.imgur.com/m3iQ0A1.jpg with a type that has all hinges hardware on the same side, as opposed to both sides https://i.imgur.com/YjOuMuA.jpg. The same applies to this door https://i.imgur.com/44T1Z7o.jpg located in the newly excavated tunnel.
  25. Consider moving these gray pipes https://i.imgur.com/bnYhTHf.jpg forward, to lessen/reduce the amount that they clip into the wall https://i.imgur.com/IAhM6bK.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/arkLOuG.jpg
  26. Consider removing this odd stark shadow https://i.imgur.com/xWw1zzB.jpg
  27. In this security office https://i.imgur.com/OUQQytH.jpg the left monitor clips into the wall https://i.imgur.com/bU2FD06.jpg
  28. In the same security office, the curved end-piece on this handrail https://i.imgur.com/ILejm2Z.jpg has an alignment issue https://i.imgur.com/7o0DOAS.jpg
  29. Consider placing curbs along the base of these walls https://i.imgur.com/4hdYvOg.jpg to mimic the ones directly across the tracks https://i.imgur.com/8kxNKjh.jpg
  30. This work light https://i.imgur.com/kLpsUXG.jpg has a couple of issues. Firstly, it’s floating above the ground https://i.imgur.com/d95yGfA.jpg. Secondly, one of its legs clips into the wall https://i.imgur.com/ttgDIKL.jpg.
    [COLOR=‘Lime’]Text, to avoid having objects floating above the ground, please remember to leave “Full Gravity” mode always enabled in the Hammer editor.
  31. Based on the non-visibility of the fixture’s side screws, both of these lights https://i.imgur.com/sEkoSbQ.jpg severely clip into the wall https://i.imgur.com/Ru9SBlK.jpg
  32. Across from the elevator, there’s a texture z-fighting issue on this roll-up door’s trim https://i.imgur.com/QPg4jJO.jpg. See attached images 3 and 4 below.
  33. Consider raising the wall air vents on either side of the elevator https://i.imgur.com/sKecFib.jpg. Comparatively, they are positioned too low.
  34. Consider removing these two large garbage containers https://i.imgur.com/Qa4db0N.jpg. They look odd and out of place here. How could any machinery easily access them for emptying? Having them located one level lower, at the same height of a tram and closer to the tracks, would be better, just like you did in C2A2A2, I believe.
  35. From my experiences with other elevators in BMS, and the one used in .RK’s OaR Loop mod, confirm that the elevator direction indicator plate actually makes contact with the wall https://i.imgur.com/dSH8sjz.jpg
  36. At level start, there’s a texture z-fighting issue on the tunnel’s ceiling https://i.imgur.com/Vu6aNpo.jpg and https://i.imgur.com/AcURo58.jpg
  37. In the first security office, consider replacing this door https://i.imgur.com/3hQt1F7.jpg with a type that has all hinges hardware on the same side, as opposed to both sides https://i.imgur.com/fDEYdVB.jpg
  38. To better illuminate the area, consider adding another fluorescent strip light above the entrance way to the security office https://i.imgur.com/Dhj5VRM.jpg
  39. At the top of the tram track incline, the rails here https://i.imgur.com/Ry0NXPa.jpg need better alignment.
  40. Since this light post https://i.imgur.com/4cAAPLX.jpg clips into the wall and sidewalk https://i.imgur.com/9vOXDRv.jpg, consider removing it and either add a fluorescent strip light or two similar to the others on the lower part of the wall, or move the upper right-most wall light to the left, as its replacement https://i.imgur.com/d7xH68w.jpg, or do some sort of combination of both.
  41. The lighting on these tram tracks is inconsistent https://i.imgur.com/Gh4nkA8.jpg. It changes from blueish to brownish. A similar instance occurs here https://i.imgur.com/NAEBymI.jpg, except there are two shades of brown involved, and there’s also a texture z-fighting issue.
  42. Consider replacing the door to this security office https://i.imgur.com/wCZISnH.jpg with a type that has all hinges hardware on the same side, as opposed to both sides https://i.imgur.com/2mouNxJ.jpg, like this one located inside the security office https://i.imgur.com/0gxJ9mM.jpg
  43. Further to item #16, if this security fence stays in place, consider removing this handrail https://i.imgur.com/1okFjjM.jpg, as it’s not necessary.
  44. In the train yard, consider removing the circular barbed-wire that sits atop the concrete security walls https://i.imgur.com/7HWNbAC.jpg. They don’t make much sense. Why would anyone consider going up and over that, which is considerably higher and more dangerous, when it’s way easier/safer to just go over the lower security fence? They also look odd and funny, especially the narrow ones https://i.imgur.com/n7hZULI.jpg. It also looks like you can crawl between the wire and the top of the concrete wall https://i.imgur.com/e6URdhG.jpg. There are also differences in the height of these. Here’s one that is lower in height https://i.imgur.com/j97pV5P.jpg and here’s a screenshot where the one by the lamp post is higher than the one next to the security hut https://i.imgur.com/NVCOzMP.jpg. IMO by removing these the map will look better, make more sense, and you’ll save on some resources.

[COLOR=‘DarkOrange’]Conclusion Of Feedback For OaR Uncut Map B2 Alpha
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#1862

While it’s possible I’m missing something from, say, the CS:GO authoring tools, I’m fairly certain there’s no such thing as physics simulation in-Hammer. Maybe you’re thinking of The TES Construction Kit/GECK?

#1863

I’m not a mapper but I can tell you that the term “Full Gravity” doesn’t appear anywhere in the Valve developer wiki, wat

@Dadster If you can’t pick it up or disturb it using explosives, it’s not a physics object, which means its placement is determined by map units, not gravity. Which means clipping or gaps of a half-inch or so are inevitable. You might recall this from one of the other forty-seven times this was mentioned to you.

#1864

In all of these instances, the distance between the lights and the walls is consistent, and also very, very tiny. The average player wouldn’t notice these unless they were actively looking for them.

Realistically, the security fencing would probably get in the way. But for gameplay, the fencing helps funnel curious players in the right direction without obstructing their view. It also sections off a footpath surrounding the area, and generally looks nicer.

Going out on a limb here, but I believe these are the result of common Source Engine bugs, and can’t be easily fixed/removed.

#1865

Looks like Dadster didn’t learn the lesson.

#1866

I thought he got permanently banned?

#1867

He was temp banned not perma banned. His ban was supposed to be lifted in early September, but for some reason, it was lifted early.

#1868

I pitied the foo’ and lifted it early. Figured if he wants to waste his time typing stuff, by all means. What was funny was even though he knew he was banned for like 72 days, he checked the forums every day. I know he wasn’t reading PMs since he never replies to any of the ones I sent :stuck_out_tongue:

One caveat dadster, if you post non-bms bugs on the public bugtracker again (read: the ST Uncut bugs you posted), you’re gone permanently and I won’t shed a tear.

#1869

Why would I do that though? I absolutely love every single song that I have in OaRU, and actually designed the scenes around those tracks for the most part.

Besides, ALL of those demos sound pretty similar in terms of the main riffs/themes to their actual version in the game. Why would I want to essentially repeat tracks? There’s no good reason to do this.

Hey dude, did you read what I wrote above? I was meaning to PM it to you but forgot because I’m a bad person.

This is what I was going to send you:

Might be worth getting someone to look into that, if possible. Basically, if the Vorts, for whatever reason (say for example he’s in a high place where the nodegraph can’t reach, or for any other wider number of reasons), can’t path towards the target to melee it, there’s a 50% chance that they’ll stand there and do nothing. Sometimes they will do the right thing and zap him, but about 50% of the time they just stand there. It’s a pretty bad AI bug that would certainly be worth fixing if possible. I imagine it would cause a lot of problems in Xen where there’s no nodegraphing between the “islands,” so maybe you’ve already fixed it. Still definitely worth mentioning though.

#1870

My quote:
Text, to avoid having objects floating above the ground, please remember to leave “Full Gravity” mode always enabled in the Hammer editor.

Similar to a portion of Text’s post #1846, specifically “Tick the “don’t crash,” and “perform well” buttons when I compile. I must have forgotten to do it for the alpha release.”, this was intended to be a continuation along the lines of his joke.

#1871

What he means by this is how physics objects behave between the editor and the game. When placing physics objects, they float in the editor. There is no way of getting around that. But when the map loads they stop floating and fall to the ground, as per gravity.

That is, unless, you tick a property that calls for the physics object to ‘start asleep’. This basically tells the entity to do nothing until something acts upon it.

It’s useful for physics optimization if you do it right. When you do it wrong, you get floating objects.

#1872

Is there a “load faster” button in Hammer? Either for the end product or for Hammer itself?

#1873

I think there’s a “have everyone enjoy this level” button in Hammer too

#1874

Yep, it’s written down, thanks for the detailed information. I don’t see that a lot in most bug reports. We’re still going through the game right now fixing stuff that’s been busted so I haven’t had a chance to touch AI. Send me that information in a PM anyway so I know where to look and not have to sift through tons of posts.

@Dadster: Hammer doesn’t even load vphysics.dll so I’m not sure where you’re getting ‘full gravity’ mode from. Elaborate? :slight_smile:

#1875

Ah, I see. I must have missed that joke.

Yes, I know. Though since “start asleep” is off by default, and I missed the joke, I assumed Dadster was making an assumption about prop_physics entities (which they also weren’t) being settled in the editor via a simulator, rather than on map load.

#1876

I also missed the joke. But now I geddit.

Also, Hammer needs maor magical buttons.

#1877

Seek and you shall find, easily enough. The answer is right in front of your nose. You just need to focus a little more harder. Still can’t find it? Really???

See my post #1877, and newer posts on this page.

#1878

Right, here’s a proper, full progress report on the state of the beta, as opposed to the bits, pieces and scraps I’ve been giving over the past week.

Just did my first proper, true testrun on A2 since I started working on it for the Beta.

I’m seriously happy with how the beta versions of A1 and A2 are turning out. I’ve learned the power of vertical (aesthetic) expansion. It really makes some of the previously boring tunnel areas interesting. It helps make the transit system feel extremely vast, and that you’ve only explored a small part of it.

2 areas on A1 have seen significant vertical expansion (again, visual only, there are no playable areas which have been expanded vertically at all, nor do I intend to do so), and 3 areas on A2. These are 5 otherwise boring tunnels which now provide a great sense of scale and uniqueness. Though from a gameplay standpoint these additions provide nothing, from an immersion and visual standpoint these additions do absolute wonders. I really feel like this does add a lot and I can’t wait for you guys to play these maps and see how much they’ve changed as a result.

I reckon I’ll have A1 and A2 basically ready in their beta state within the next 2 days, if not sooner. I’ve already quashed literally all of the major bugs on A1, and have nothing but minor/visual bugfixes left to do on that map. A2 still needs some work. In terms of B1 and B2, there’s nothing particularly major I want to do on those maps in terms of major changes. Their alphas were, overall, much better designed and provide much cleaner gameplay and aesthetics than A1 and A2 did, but bear in mind that the A alpha took me less than 2 months to finish while the B alphas were about 5 months. The B alphas had a lot more work done on them, so there’s less to fix on them from a major standpoint. In terms of expansions, though A1 and A2 have seen significant vertical expansion, nothing really can be done on B1 or B2, as they are at entity/brush limits. You’ll mostly just see bugfixes/gameplay refinement. No major visual changes, most likely.

In terms of gameplay, A1 flows vastly better now and I have made it a lot more intuitive. Some of the more boring areas are more interesting now (particularly the hallway leading to the power room, which is really cool and unique now). It has only 1 extra enemy encounter but now boasts a few new explorable areas to make up for the fact that the core route on the map itself is pretty darn short.

A2 has overall about 3/5ths of the enemies it did before. I can’t remember the exact amounts and can’t be bothered to look them up, but I estimate it’s something like:

Convergent Tracks: From 9 Vorts, 5 Marines, to 6 Vorts, 3 Marines
Office Script: From 9 Vorts, 5 Marines, to 6 Vorts, 5 Marines
Security Ambush: From 4 Marines, 4 Vorts to 3 Marines
Cafeteria: From 5 Vorts, 1 Bullsquid (Bugged) to 1 Bullsquid (not bugged)
Endtrack: From 15 (really not sure here) Vorts, 6 Marines to 10 Vorts, 4 Marines

I was partly able to do this due to finding the workaround to the AI bug, but also because I just wanted to reduce enemy numbers overall anyway. This does have the unwanted side effect of making most of the fights be quite a bit shorter, but it isn’t over in the blink of an eye, which is fine. We can leave the full scale, long fights for STU, eh? You can see some areas have had dramatic enemy reductions, most notable the Security Ambush and the Cafeteria. The Vort encounters here were certainly extraneous and just made the office complex feel a bit overwhelming, so they were culled. The map is a lot less action heavy now which gives the atmosphere (which I’ve fixed a fair amount) more of a chance to shine.

As for player direction, it’s improved a lot. The lighting and prop placement in the Office Complex should hopefully make the optimum route significantly clearer to the player. It’s perhaps still not as crystal clear as I’d like it to be, but I think it’s close to the best it can be given the convoluted layout and the potential to approach it from two ends (“forward” and “backward”). The camera in the security office which is pointed at the boom gate is actually useful now, and the huge security status lights you can find near the tracks and in the security office should tell the player what he’s done once he’s pressed the button. I’m still about iffy on the Anomalous Materials style wall stripes which lead the player to the Security Office/Cafeteria/Locker and Break Rooms. They work somewhat decently to direct the player, but do feel a little out of place, as it’s somewhere that’s never seen anywhere else throughout the entire game. I figure I’ll probably leave them in the beta, and then wait to see what everyone thinks of them. They’re not bad, I’m just not sure that they add that much. I have to wait and see how much it helps people who don’t know the route beforehand.

Optimization wise, the office complex on A2 now performs A LOT better. Optimizing the lighting (making some of them use non-dynamic custom appearances) has seriously improved framerate without compromising quality, and some new hintbrushes/areaportals/fade distances/occluders have all helped too. I now never drop below 60FPS in the office complex. Everywhere else on A1 and A2 should perform about as well as before, with the expanded areas obviously taking a bit of a hit. However, they were just plain standard tunnels before, and still run 100% perfectly for me, even with their changes.

I still feel like I’m well on track for the beta release sometime next week, especially now that I’ve wrapped up on my job, painting and decorating a hall in Belsize Park (woohoo!). We’ll still have to wait and see, but I’m confident that I can get it done, particularly as, for the next few weeks, before I begin my proper full-time job hunt, I’ll be mapping full-time, to try and get OaRU finished.

Alright, I’ll do that tomorrow as I’m going to bed in a minute. Take my comments with a tiny pinch of salt, I know nothing about AI. But I do know that ALL the Vorts which acted dumb on all my maps, both ST and OaR Uncut, never had a clear path to reach the player (both rooftop encounters on H, gasworks aliens on H when you’re up on the pipes, A2 Vorts at convergent tracks, A2 Vorts at endtrack, B1 Vorts up on the balconies in turntable ambush, etc etc). I also know that putting an npc_clip which allowed the Vorts to cross the track, fixed it, forever and ever. So, putting 2 + 2 together, the problem seems to explain itself. I may be off the mark though, but it’s definitely worth investigating, and I’m fairly sure that I’m right. It happens with both Vorts and AGrunts

Would you like me to write down some of my other AI thoughts somewhere? All constructive and carefully stated, of course. Would that help you? I’d like to, if you’ll hear me!

#1879

Well congrats. Ya got me. :slight_smile:

Cool deal. In regards to your AI suggestions, write them down in a text file. I am going to post a thread soon to basically put all the feedback in one place rather than having it scattered everywhere in various threads.

#1880

Now that I think about it, I also noticed this when I was playing through B2. I didn’t say anything about it, but I did notice it. I would like to second this piece of feedback.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.