I don’t understand why the BM Devs even made the M2 so bad. In HL it was damn accurate, and the auto-cannons (while slower firing) were near pinpoint accurate. I’m not sure where they got the idea that ‘MG should be less accurate than the Shotgun’.
I recon they made the shot frequency constant or more realistic but due to gameplay reasons had to lower accuracy, so that you stood a chance…
in half life its aimed at you what once, and in BM sense its the only turret its aimed at you more times, thing the accuracy crap was to balance the weapon when fighting against it.
QFT. If you had something that fast hitting you over 90% of the time, that would be pretty darn frustrating. Not to mention that they do a fair amount of damage with each hit.
Also to be fair, I’m not sure how much recoil the guns have. It would make sense for a faster gun to be less accurate, since you have less time to adjust between each bullet. They traded speed for accuracy here, methinks.
Learn the difference between single shot accuracy and full-auto spread/cone of fire . Also educate yourself why ultra-low spread for full-auto fire beyond short bursts is retarded and why moderately wide spread/beaten zone (within reason) is beneficial.
Ignoring side comments, I’ve played through B2 (finally) there’s a fair share of optimization issues, but overall, no pet peeves. The sniper scared the shit out of me when it first spawned, but other than that, not much I can say. Great work.
Regarding the little HECU assault at the beginning of your first map (the on where they are on the side of a cross rail). Perhaps you could have that little tram they were bunked out around push out and block passage. Then you’d have to take them out, get on, and push it forward a bit. or something.
Better avoid doing that, the game reacts weirdly when you have more than one driveable tram. B1 is the best example, when you can jump on the other tram before the turn-table ambush.
Hi, I’ve been following this thread for quite a while (and ST Uncut as well) and this is my first time posting.
I’ve played through the alpha, and it is incredible! All the throwbacks to the original Half Life, all the new areas and fresh ideas, and the amazing amount of love and effort put into every corner. With that said, I’ll get straight to feedback.
From what I read of the last few pages of this thread, a lot of people were concerned that adding more enemy encounters to the outdoor section of B2 would ruin the calm and atmosphere of that area, but I don’t think it did at all; it wasn’t overly packed with action or anything. In fact, it was a nice mix of exploration and combat, without “stealing the thunder” from C’s combat at the rocket.
The sentry turrets were really tough to spot the first time I played through, leading to me sustaining quite a bit of damage, but I’m guessing there were a lot of players that saw them quite easily. I do agree, however, that having the HECU on the tram shooting at you right as you leave the warehouse takes a bit away from the whole “Holy crap, I’m actually outside” feeling; the player has only a few seconds of calm, and then is immediately confronted with enemies. They only take off a few HP if they manage to hit you at all, but if they are not promptly dealt with they become a nuisance when they get off at the train station. The idea of having them emerge if the player takes the loop is pretty cool.
Having the HECU in the watchtower and crane , as well as the ones on the .50 cal emplacement shooting at the player so early on, I think, is also worth mentioning. By the time I reached the train station in the middle of the area, I was taking fire from those 3 adversaries, when I would have liked to do some exploring. They don’t take off much health due to their poor accuracy, but it is annoying to constantly be hearing bullet impacts around you and seeing stray rounds streak across your vision. Having those enemies harass the player funnels their attention to dealing with them first, rather then letting them take in the environment around them. A few magnum rounds can take care of the marines in the crane and watchtower, but they have a habit of ducking in and out of cover, making it a prolonged sniping duel, particularly if the player is a bad shot with the magnum (as I am).
I propose spawning all the marines only after the player has interacted with the console in the security booth (when the sniper shoots out the window). This would allow the player to maneuver the area with more ease without going too far (they still need to open the security doors to progress with the tram), whilst feeling a bit of unease at the lack of enemies, and then suddenly…BOOM! hit them with an ambush. You could have the marines then spawn in the watchtower and .50 cal emplacement, as well as others outside the booth “zeroing” in on Freeman’s position ( much as it is currently). Now the environment changes from relatively safe, to an area chock full of cover to allow the player to dispatch the .50 cal and sniper and surrounding marines. This could also mean moving the flare directly over the area instead of being off in the distance, as it could be interpreted as the marines signalling the ambush and alerting their buddies to where Freeman is (though if the flare was deliberately set off into the distance for a reason, I apologize for my shortsightedness).
Sorry if this has already been suggested, and if it is a terrible idea, but I just think that it would alleviate the claustrophobia (minor as it is) from being under fire from enemies just as you’ve settled into the outdoor area. Again, excellent work on the maps, Text, it makes OaR akin to Highway 17-a long journey, but one that is enjoyable.
EDIT: As others have also pointed out, it isn’t really worth it at all to check out the bullsquid container, as it contains no goodies 
Well, Text, I think it’s redundant to say that you have made an excellent job for the community. Your work does not lack in any point, even though there are some bugs here and there. That’s why you have the community to support you, so you can release stuff like alpha and beta versions etc. Oh, and before I forget, the outdoor area is amazing! Great addition to the chapter. 
I’m not going to hunt bugs all over the four maps, because I think there are others already doing that. There are two continuity points that I wish to be covered, though:
1 - In A1, there’s a door that leads to the switch, where you find marines and houndeyes. I think that door should be closed, for three facts that I think were already mentioned: a) it spoils the loop; b) it makes no sense to the player being there before you even meet the puzzle; and c) how could the marines didn’t notice the houndeyes? So, I think, for the sake of the loop, that door must be closed;
2 - In B1, there’s another door that leads to the TOW, and, as also mentioned by others, should be closed as well.
These two are my major points. The others are minor ones, such as misplaced textures, clipping objects etc. that have been pointed out.
Again, great job. Now, thanks to you, Black Mesa is closer to replace Half-Life to me (although truly it never will).
I could be wrong on this, but I think that’s actually a bug. I’m assuming that’s the case, at any rate.
I think that door was open at first because of something to do with moving across the map. I don’t know if Text needed it for something or something else. I do however know that he intends to close it.
As for that second door, there is zero reason for it to be closed. And there’s not point in it being closed either, because there’s more than one way to walk over there.
Unless we see him appearing out of thin-air, this is not an issue. Not even remotely.
We’re on the other side of the map. It really does not matter when he shows up there.
still needs to be a place for the tow soldier to come from, mostly because of consistency with the main game (most of the time when soldiers spawn after an event there is an explanation like a door being open that wasn’t before)
Running through it a second time. Found two more bugs.
-
In C2A2A1, there is a plank placed across the tracks, with a HECU standing on the plank and a hanging electrical line above him. I looped around on foot and took him out with a .45 snipe headshot. Eventually, once I’d killed all the HECUs in the area, I went back to the tram and ran through the planks. Even though no HECU was found anywhere nearby, there was still a “sht sht!!” HECU cry when I ran over the dead body.
-
Graphical glitch in C2A2A2 - tracks misaligned, near the .50 cal vort slugfest:
I’m still looking for the opens-to-wall door that I found on my first playthrough.
That’s been the general problem I’ve been seeing, HECUs just spawn out of thin air. I don’t recall that ever happening in HL. As you said, soldiers were either always there or they spawned offstage and then came into frame through a door or nearby area. With all the other enemies in the game teleporting in, HECUs are stuck on foot and at a disadvantage because of it. That’s a big part of why they’re losing.
I’ll write a nice juicy post for you all to digest when I get home from work this evening. Been crazy busy both day and night so haven’t had a chance yet. Last week of work though, and then back to full time mapping until OaRU is complete. If anyone has anything they’d like me to address in tonight’s post, speak now!
Yes and Yes.
Here’s some feedback for maps A1 and A2 I found while you were working on ST Uncut 2.0. It also includes a small piece of feedback for the previous version of map B1.
I also got some feedback frrom the new version of map B1 to map C.
Right, a few prefaces to this long reply to everything that’s been said since release.
Firstly - I wasn’t really looking for A map feedback as no changes whatsoever have been made to them since the Alpha which was in…February. So far not a single issue has been posted which I wasn’t already aware about/planning to fix. Not that I mind the doubled up feedback, but it’s worth noting. I’m currently working through improving A1. A few new rooms and areas will be added but the core of the map itself won’t be changed much at all, if at all.
Secondly - thanks to everyone who tested and played B2. This map was by far the hardest map in OaRU to get right, and I’m really glad that everyone (bar one extremely unpleasant dude on my ModDB page) has enjoyed it, even if there is debate and concern over certain aspects. The amount and quality of feedback posted has been really nice too, it’s always wonderful and humbling to see lots of people getting passionate about your work. A big thanks to the community. It’s also great to see a fair amount of “new blood” in this thread too. I hope you guys stick around - the more the merrier!
Thirdly - apologies for my absence over the past few days. As I said above, work’s been crazy, we’re absolutely rushing to get this job finished by our deadline on Friday and there’s just so much to do! Once this week’s over, it’s back to full time mapping until OaRU is complete and finished.
Finally - I won’t reply to posts point-for-point, as that would take me many many hours which, in my current tired state, would not end well. I’ll make 2 posts. My first will cover the broad issues which people have been bringing up, and my thoughts and plans concerning them. My second will just be small replies to random points which caught my interest.
I might seem a bit resistant to some of the larger debates here, for which I sorta apologize. I have read everything which everyone has had to say, and have weighed up my opinions with others. Sometimes I feel I have to override what others say, others I will implement change even if I don’t want to.
B2 Combat and Pacing[/SIZE]
Targ’s post pretty much sums up my attitude towards this whole, large debate perfectly, as he so often does. You guys spoke about the map being too serene, so I acted on it as I agreed with you. Perhaps I overcorrected, but I do think that many people are exaggerating the amounts of action in the outdoor area.
I do also think that the reaction would have been very different had I not shown the video of the old version of B2. I REALLY do. I feel like some people saw the first video, and even though they objected to it, subconsciously kinda think that the first video represents the way the map SHOULD be. Its default state, which I then deviated from. But that’s not really the way it is. People are comparing the two. I do think if I’d just released the map as is, with no media or discussion beforehand, I’d probably have no complaints about the action. But maybe that’s a bad thing - at least this way testers have different pictures of how the scene CAN be designed, which can ultimately lead to better feedback I guess.
As Targ says, the action is sectioned, unless you run through the map extremely quickly. You can easily fight the 2 dudes on the tram without taking fire from anywhere else. You can easily fight the 2 tower dudes without taking fire from anywhere else. The 50 Cal emplacement can ONLY shoot at you from a range of 3600 or less, which means it can’t shoot past the shelter in the train yard. The Marines in the track switch office ONLY come out if you go near the office (which also serve to direct the player). The Sniper/Ambush ONLY happens once you trigger the trackswitch. 2 of the 4 sentry turrets are in extremely obvious locations (roadblocks) facing AWAY from the player, and the other 2 are guarding the flanks of the 50 Cal emplacement, meaning the player will only engage those if they go looking for action. Overall it’s certainly not as overwhelming and all at once as lots of you seem to be making it out to be.
To all those of you saying all this stuff means the player doesn’t have a chance to explore - I suggest you consider ODB’s excellent comment:
Clear the enemies, then explore. Easy. Practically every single outdoor environment in Black Mesa follows this formula.
So I strongly disagree that having all this action prevents players from being able to explore.
HOWEVER, and this is a big however - I do agree with those of you who said that having the large amount of INITIAL action lessens the impact of suddenly being in this huge, relatively quiet outdoor location, especially considering it’s the first real outdoor moment in the game now (excluding WGH because you’re under immense pressure there). That is certainly a complaint I can sympathize with, and with a bit of further consideration, you’re all right about that. The most action on the entire map is essentially happening right at the start of the outdoor area, assuming the player just barrels forward on the tram as I suspect most do. This is more of a pacing issue than a quantity issue. It changes the impact of being introduced to the outdoor area quite dramatically, and also makes Dark Skies not fit the moment.
So don’t worry, I’m not just ignoring complaints. Here’s my plan to combat this problem. I’m going to remove the initial tram encounter, as many have suggested. That will occur if the player loops round, also as suggested. The Marine in the guard tower will EITHER be scrapped OR will emerge during the Sniper ambush, replacing the Marine who charges out from the broken turntable. This will pace the combat better in 2 ways - firstly the player won’t be immediately confronted with the most simultaneously combatants on the map. Secondly, if the player clears out the resistance and then loops round, there’s still more action to be had, giving a more constant flow of combat.
Hopefully you’ve considered my arguments and can agree with me that it’s the best plan of action.
50 Cal Emplacement[/SIZE]
There’s been some debate about the 50 Cal emplacement too, and let me emphatically say that it’s going to stay, and will stay pretty much the way it currently is too. I love that emplacement and personally think it does its job perfectly.
2 comments in particular on this issue interested me:
I have to ask this seriously because this comment surprised me - did anyone LEGITIMATELY get “destroyed” by the 50 Cal bunker? If so - HOW!? As ODB said, that thing hits like…1 in 20 shots due to its hideous accuracy, and basically has a clear sightline ONLY across the rail track, with a max range of 3600 (it can’t shoot past the end of the sheltered trainyard). It has a lead up time of 1 second with a variance of 0.75, so there are no instant reactions either. How can you get destroyed by that?
In ALL my testing runs I found it to be more of a nuisance than anything else, which is exactly what I was going for. It stops the outdoor area from initially being a leisurely stroll through an empty trainyard and gives it a little bit of tension and urgency, which is even largely avoidable. Flanking the turret is REALLY damn easy, and only requires you to kill 1 single sentry turret to do so. Contrary to what some have been saying, you DON’T have to sit back outside the AI’s detection range and snipe them. And before anyone suggests scrapping the max range on the AI’s 50Cal - it initially didn’t have it, and it was HORRIBLE. Without that they really could nail you from across the map with you being able to do very little about it.
I’ve stated on a few occasions now that I won’t edit the 50 Cal’s stats. It just doesn’t make sense for it to be inconsistent, both from an integration and a gameplay standpoint. There’s no sense creating an inconsistency here when the current iteration both works fine AND is consistent with every other 50 in Black Mesa, which are all the same gun anyway.
“Spawning” Enemies[/SIZE]
This is in your imagination, for the most part. Though my memory may be off (if it is, it will only be by 1 or 2 encounters), there are only 4 parts in the entirety of OaR Uncut where soldiers will magically appear - only 2 of which have significant impact on believability, and both of which are instances which I have already stated plans for resolving. I’ve done it the same way Black Mesa did - practically all of the human NPCs are simply ai entities which are initially “asleep”. They are “asleep,” meaning they don’t render, and stand still doing nothing, until woken by a trigger. In this state they can still be killed and hurt. You can test this for yourself. Turn on noclip, fly UNDER the map (so you don’t trigger any of my awake triggers), and fly up to a sleeping Marine. When a Marine is “asleep,” their gun will still be floating in the air. Now shoot or grenade the Marine. They die.
The alternative method for spawning Marines which you have to do sometimes, is using an npc_maker, which literally does make them just appear out of thin air - which is the phenomenon that some people are complaining about. I can recall 4 instances where Marines spawn like this, and I’m 95% sure that’s all there is:
- A2 office complex ambush, after pressing the rail security override
- B1 TOW Marine
- B1 Turntable reinforcements (rapelling)
- B2 Sniper ambush (the 2 that rush at you)
1 and 2 will be fixed. 1 will be addressed by having them come out of an elevator. 2 will be fixed by having a door with a hallway behind him.
3 and 4 do not impact the game or believability at all. The Marines from 3 spawn way out of the player’s sight and run into view. It is impossible to see them spawn, and the player can’t get a good view of the raised walkways they spawn on anyway. 4 is basically the same thing. For this one you’ll just have to imagine that they were hiding somewhere waiting for you, and popped out only when they got the go ahead from the Sniper. Perfectly plausible, in any case.
Bullsquid in Container[/SIZE]
Nobody seems to like this poor fella, so I’ll scrap him. I do think that people are making the somewhat unjustified assumption that every single hidden encounter MUST contain hidden goodies, or that ALL exploration must be rewarded, which I think is indicative of potentially repetitive level design, but regardless, I’ll scrap him anyway.
Cave Tunnel[/SIZE]
Several comments about this. I’m all for adding more of a purpose or interesting scene to the cave tunnel, but think of it from a practical standpoint.
Firstly - from a design perspective, I am STRONGLY OPPOSED to FORCING a player to use the loop. Forcing the player to go in circles in order to progress just seems like poor design to me, and unrewarding for the player, particularly if they miss something - which is easy enough to do. Thus - I am almost 100% certain that unless someone makes a seriously compelling and extremely persuasive argument as to why forcing the player to use the cave is a FANTASTIC idea, I will NOT force the player to go that way. Additionally - the whole “turn on the power” thing is WAY overdone in OaR at this point, and why would the power for the security hut be in a cave tunnel, of all places?
If someone can think up some interesting scenes or purpose for the cave tunnel, then I’m all about it. Let me know! If I get given a good idea I’m sure as hell gonna use it! The only reason there isn’t one there currently is because I just seriously couldn’t think of one, which is why it currently remains an optional side area with just a small Vort fight. I have some leeway on the entity limit, so interesting stuff can still be added there if some good ideas come up. It’s the brush limit I’m touching the tip of.
Conclusion[/SIZE]
Again, a big thanks to everyone who’s played and commented, not only on B2, but any of my work in general. I seriously appreciate and LOVE it, whether it be positive or negative. The feedback I’ve received from B2 in particular has been of REALLY high quality, which really pleases me greatly!
Though I don’t necessarily always agree with it, I cannot fault the way in which you guys have been delivering it, so thanks a lot. Please, if you feel up to it, keep it up! I am sorry if I’ve shown a lot of resistance to peoples’ comments in this post, but I’m sure you understand why.
My next post with smaller, more precise comments - incoming!
I think the Bullsquid in the container could be easily salvaged if the writing around his container implies that the marines just don’t think he’s worth bothering with, as opposed to that they’re intentionally keeping him alive to feed scientists to.