This. So much this.
Fuckin’ ay - instead of just standing around waving signs at the tall, pretty buildings, the protesters need to storm them en masse!
I’ll bet The Donald doesn’t want a whole bunch of pissed off poor people standing around Trump Tower lobby bothering his residents and staff…
Hmmm, I have a feeling that plan is flawed somehow… If only I could put my finger on it.
Oh wait, I’ve got it, its the stupidest plan I’ve heard in a long time.
Did I forget to mention that I’m not a protester?
Protesting about a general idea is actually a pretty good way to gain momentum. You can get a lot of people involved since it’s not about a single issue, which is usually more divisive.
The Tea Part made huge headway in the Republican Party by doing the same thing. They said it was about taxes, but it was really just a big general vent for the far right. This is the same thing, but for the left. Basically a big “We’re mad and stuff. Listen to us!” gathering.
Yeah, but its questionable how effective any of that is going to be. You get some congressmen elected, but then what? You have no real platform (this groups far less than the tea party), so you’re doomed to failure.
OWS does have a platform, though. And it’s much more focused than the Tea Party. And their message is much more effective at helping the country than the Tea Party. It’s not a “We’re mad, listen to us!” protest. It’s a “We’re mad at X, Y, Z, and we are working to get politicians in to do away or reduce X, Y, Z!” protest.
No, that doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker. Nor should it. “Taxed Enough Already” is trite and vague. The OWS protests are about a much larger problem than simply being a bunch of crybabies with no real plan because, well, that’s what the Tea Party is.
I’d like to refute this by going over France’s job market at the moment.
The big thing about why France’s economy is so shitty is their highly regulated economic structure. Known as Dirigisme, the doctrine sees government nationalizing swaths of French businesses, requiring national standards of work weeks, overtime pay, mandatory vacation weeks, and other such standards.
The net result? 9.9 percent unemployment.
I realize the economy is already shit, but President Obama’s continual attempts to nationalize businesses that are “too big to fail” (continued from Bush, who is equally guilty in my eyes) and health care “reform” that is being shoved down the throats of the public have only exacerbated the unemployment problem here. We’re currently at 9.1% nationwide unemployment.
Businesses in France are hiring far less than other countries due to the absurd amounts of government regulation on employees in that country, and likely the US will end up the same way in short order.
Also I know people who prefer ordering fast food through a machine instead of a person that screws up the order constantly. I, too, found the experience of using the touch screen menu at Jack in the Box to be rather refreshing.
As for welfare and food stamps- considering that I’ve been on unemployment for over a year, I feel I can comment with authority. Being on unemployment disincentivizes getting back into the job market. After all, if you can get something for nothing, why bother doing something for something?
As for government spending cuts hurting the economy, spending recklessly can hurt just as much if not more. Witness the horror.
Spending frivolously for the length of time we have is fundamentally dangerous to our way of life, and runs the risk of hyper-inflating the dollar and completely destroying it. President Obama’s policies are a rather distressing example of anti-corporate brinkmanship.
If it continues to grow, they could parlay it into a grassroots election strategy, like the Tea Party did. But you’re right, it’s not big enough right now.
As far as platform goes, if the general consensus among the protestors averages out to “go farther left” then getting more liberal congresspeople elected is going to help them out a lot in that regard. The Senate is going to be a little tougher, since A.) that’s where legislation often becomes watered-down and pushed to the right and B.) even the Tea Party barely exerted enough influence to get more than a few Senators elected. Rand Paul and Mike Lee and maybe one or two others are all it mustered.
So it’s a mixed bag, but I think you could actually see something like this help get some changes made.
It’ll need more than just more people though, its going to need cohesive leadership and focused goals, instead of just a general push to the left. The tea party got on the smaller government bandwagon, so the 99 percenters (I guess that what we’ll call them? I really hate that name. It implies they speak for that many people.) could get on the higher regulation bandwagon.
Incidentally, the entire point of the senate is to act as insulation from the will of the people, so as to prevent the frequent mood swings of the American people to affect lawmaking too much. Honestly I think its one of their more brilliant moves.
Excuse me, but could you prove that “Dirigsme” resulted in those figures and not anything else?
…which isn’t happening…
Interesting. The unemployment rate was skyrocketing even before Obama got into office but it’s his health care bill that caused it?
Prove it.
I don’t. I’d rather go to a person even if they ‘screw up’.
Why are you introducing me to things I’ve known about for a long time?
Depends on what one is spending it on. And Obama’s policies are NOT anti-corporate brinksmanship. Stop with the bullshit.
Please.
Don’t listen to danielsangeo, everything you throw at him he calls bullshit if it doesn’t support his socialist ideals. Stop wasting your time kenny, unless you want to get into endless e-penis arguments that nobody reads anyway.
What bothers me most is that a lot of the ‘99 percenters’ (hate that name too) are targeting the wrong source of the problem. Many see capitalism as the source of the problem (‘Michael Moore fans’), even though it’s corporatism. This means that there is a conflict between pro-government and anti-government people even though both sides agree on a few key issues like the whole bailing out banks thing (socializing losses) and the monetary policy by the Federal Reserve.
If only Friedman was still around…
I’m sorry, but what am I supposed to do with things that are demonstrably and factually incorrect?
Also, I’m not a socialist nor do I hold socialist ideals. Thanks.
Haven’t you heard? Anyone on the internet who isn’t a batshit sound-money libertarian is, in fact, a socialist-corporatist who doesn’t understand simple retarded economics.
Daniel: with regards to my comments on unemployment, I hope you enjoyed paying for my PS3.
I’m okay with the economic stimulation. And the amount of my money that went to your PS3 is next to nil. The stimulating effect of your purchase is greater than the money I spent on your PS3 so I actually come out ahead.
Also, abuse of the system =/= flawed system. Just shows that you abused the system and that you’re a childish idiot. A job is much better than being on unemployment. So, um, congrats on making yourself look like a fool, I guess.
Can you say World Revolution? I hope so…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzqBO0FbjLY&feature=uploademail
Can I suggest something here? It’s really easy to misunderstand in a forum setting regardless of how long anyone has been a forumite. So instead of nit picking at each other over a couple of misunderstood statements find a positive way to turn it around. (some are truly harsh statements which I wish people would stay away from negativity.)
Let’s work together to spread the message and understanding of this historical moment in time. Think about it guys… YOU are LIVING in HISTORY, watching it unfold before your eyes. No one knows what is going to happen. Let’s stop looking into the future and deal with today.
I’ve been keeping up with this and have been to Occupy Los Angeles. For anyone who has legitimate questions I will do my best to answer. And if I don’t know and I can’t find the answer I won’t pretend to know.
So please ask questions. There’s no sense in being negative, this is about people coming together for one cause (I hope it grows to represent how humanity will adopt a new way of thinking). Not about dividing and conquering, it’s pretty silly to fight.
END ALL WARS!
Edit: Jean I watched the Milton Friedman video you posted just now, and you yourself also made the comment that this isn’t about standing against capitalism but more corporatism. And these protesters also say the same thing. There is an agreement right there between you and the protesters. If you feel the need to say (Most of) these people are socialists against capitalism then I see from my perspective that you may be watching biased media. Because I have seen and heard all of the comments over mainstream media completely discrediting the voice of the people.
“There is no alternative way, so far discovered of improving allot of the ordinary people to the productive activity unleashed by a free enterprise system.” Milton Friedman
I just want to note a second time the "so far discovered" part of the statement. There IS a better way, we just haven't found it yet. =) Do you agree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvpBrN3OJwU&feature=uploademail Not only college students. Oh, also labor unions are involved as well. As of I think week 2 or 3.
Also, veterans of not only the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, but veterans of Vietnam and WWII.
Oh man, three of them. Looks like a movement.
Arlo Guthrie says you need fifty people for a movement. Need moar.