My thoughts on the MOVEMENT and where BM:DM should go with it.

So, everyone is creating their own threads with the same things.

  1. Bhop.
    Yes, it was a bug in a first place. But now, it will be intentionally implemented part of gameplay, because it was accepted by a majority of experienced players, those who really like hl1 and spent hundred of hours to master it . This is how it was in quake series.

  2. Lj.
    It is an important part of movement too, but even some of ag players agree that it should be fixed a bit. However, it should not significantly change gameplay in general and especially “silent” part.
    So, there are two options, which seems pretty good for me:
    2.1.1. Remove silent lj.
    This technique is not that hard to worry about it within the context of skill cap, it won’t be changed that much anyway. We already have two types of movement, so we can make the fast one (bhop) a bit louder, and make the slow one (regular running) silent. There aren’t bhop as a movement technique in cs, so they need walking, but we actually don’t.
    This would make the game a bit more unpredictable. Furthermore, “silent” version of movement is usually more useful for a player under control, but not for the one who already has lj and other things, so it would make the game a bit more “balanced” in some ways.
    2.1.2. Make energy recovery system a bit more complicated. For example, decrease energy recovery rate after being hit, so it would be possible to use silent lj when it’s needed, but a player won’t be able to spam it in a fight.
    Both of these options (even probably combined) are intended to keep movement and strategic parts of gameplay more or less untouched, but make combats a bit less chaotic and more elaborate.
    There are several reasons for me to fix it:
    2.2.1. It is too powerful, but too easy.
    The only thing you need to lj is pressing a key(s). As it was already said, you almost cant control it, unlike dodges, so it doesn’t really matter how good you are - the jumps will be nearly the same. This means that a very bad player will be able to evade at almost the same level as a “medium” player. This is a problem per se, but it also means that it will be much more effective to focus on lj spam at low or even medium level, instead of aim, movement and other things.
    The obvious solution is to add something which will make lj a bit harder.
    2.2.2. Lj usage is unlimited.
    In most of the games there are some limiting for such actions. A spring for example usually has energy cost (even in hl2), gauss need both ammo and time to charge (moreover, almost every weapon has a limiting, so it either needs ammo or time to recharge (hornet). Or it has very narrow scope like a crowbar). As for the other games - there is an energy cost for rolls (which is pretty similar to lj) in competitive/hardcore games which has such mechanics (dark souls for example), there is an energy in already mentioned tribes: ascend. These games are probably not that similar to hl, but energy management looks pretty “deep” for me, so it will not be a simplification.

  3. Xbow.
    This is a long range weapon first of all, so I think there should be something to balance/limit it usage in close combat.
    3.1. There are already two powerful hitscan close combat weapons - shotgun and 357. 357 was useless in original hl1, but now it got buffed, so it can be used as a replacement of xbow for mid and close ranges.
    3.2. There are almost no consequences of the miss. So, a lot of players spam it without trying to aim. The weapon with such a high damage should have a delay either before or after a shot. You need to charge gauss before you shoot, and there are delays for switching weapon in quake, and railgun delay is the longest one. This will force players to aim instead of spam, because they know that they could be killed or damaged if they miss. This can hardly be called a noobification.

I have noticed the magnum is done really nicely, and I do enjoy using that gun. You can snipe with it, long range . It’s pretty dope.

While I would like to see the old instant hit xbow, I think that if you decide not to have the instant hit, perhaps we could implement quickbow back into it.

I can definitly get used to the projectile xbow. It is harder, but still not bad. A quick bow with a projectile shot would still be tough, but make the weapon a little more viable at medium ranges. Those nice reaction xbow shots are always amazing to watch people pull off too.

I don’t mind the mp5 recoil so much either. I still enjoy using the weapon and think its pretty good.

Just a note - the current Crossbow IS instant hit when you’re zoomed in, the same as HL1. When zoomed, it becomes hitscan.

It’s possible there’s some funkiness with the hitreg which is making it feel weird and not instant (I’ve been complaining to our MP programmer about this for a while), but it is definitely hitscan when zoomed in. We’ll look into it.

I’m talking about different thing.
Zoomed xbow should be hitscan, but it should be a delay between switching weapon and shooting, either before or after the shot.

In half-life, the delay between two successive shots with two different weapons A and B is contained in the weapon B (pre shot delay), not within weapon A (post shot delay).
This means, that if I shot with weapon A, I’m free to switch instantly to any weapons B but it takes time for the latter to be effective and actually shot. The delay you propose actually exists, can’t you see it?

In quake 3, the delay is a post shot delay. This means that it is all contained after you shot and still hold weapon A. If you couple that with fast switch as CPM does, it allows some retarded actions (CPM really is a retarded game, that’s for sure): take shaft (this weapon has basically no post shot delay and is like gluon), wait to hear the hitsound (say, blood in HL) and instant switch to rail (bow) and shot. Congratulation, you just found a way to have a free rail hit because of post shot delay and instant switch.

Moreover, you tend to believe that it would make the game more fair to disallow what you call bow spam (?). If you do that, you’re just going to make the retake of any map harder, because basically, in 1o1 or 4o4, the only efficient weapon that is not usually timed or protected by your opponent is bow. If you make it weaker, be sure that you’re killing the very possibility to kill the dominating opponent. Got it?

Yes, there is a pre shot delay, but it is negligible considering xbow damage.
The idea is to limit xbow usage in close combat, without nerfing it at far distances.
Post shot delay is disputable, but you guys don’t want a zoom delay, which could be a best solution.

We can rebalance some weapons to make them useful to retake the map. 357 would be awesome with no recoil and a bit higher damage as well as gluon with no recoil and no splash.
Btw what do you think about rebalancing gluons armor penetration to 1/1 from default 1/2? It will make it really useful for retaking control, without making it too powerful. (You probably don’t think that tdm gluon is imbalanced, but almost everyone else does)

I actually I’m not really sure if I like the 357 buff. Sure… The weapon is stronger now. But do we really need all weapons in the game to be strong?
If you want to shoot high ranges you take the bow, if you shoot close ranges you take the shotgun, if you shoot middle ranges you take MP5, if you want to rush you gaussjump above your enemy and use RPG, if you want to enable beastmode you take egon, if you want to move or prefire through walls you use gauss…
As I said before, there should be less usefull areas in maps to add more teamplay-value and depth to the game. Weak areas could still need some weak weapons.
Actually I don’t think the 357 should be another too strong weapon. Maybe you should make the 357 work a bit like the quake-railgun. It could deal medium+ damage without granting 2hit- or insta-kills all the time (while shooting 100 hp guys without armor)… so it would be a good weapon to weaken your enemy on higher ranges (+ headshot-kill chance). At the same time the 357-firerate should be really low to limit it’s effectivity on medium and close ranges.

Why would you want to do that in the first place? What’s the point? Are you aware that it is HARDER to aim with zoom at closed distance than at far ones? Are you also aware that spaming 2 to 4 cells of gauss in chain is much more powerful than bow? Are you going to militate to decrease gauss efficiency too? What next, headshot? I invite you to look at the damage and fire rates of weapons, and draw curves if you’re not convinced that what you’re proposing is totally illegitimate and ill founded.

Moreover, you force me to repeat once again some triviality for anyone who played more than three 1o1 or 4o4 in its life: bow is usually the only weapon a guy has at its disposable to try killing its opponent when the latter is dominating. Do you want this game to be all first spawn luck?

Are you sure it’s hitscan? I turned host_timescale down out of boredom, and while it’s extremely short, it definitely looks like there’s a delay between firing the crossbow and the bolt hitting something.

It is harder to aim with zoom at close distances, but there are xbow/snipe scripts. The scripts are based on fast weapon switch first of all, so if it’s removed, there will be two options: either to use zoomed xbow even in close combat, and it’s hard and fair, or not to use it at close combat at all.
Gauss 2-4 cells spam is a problem too, so it’s probably should be fixed, but at least it isn’t instant, so you cant just switch to gauss, do 120 damage and switch back to shotgun/etc.

And it’s bad. Thats why I want to buff 357 and fix gluon.

Why is that bad, and why are you using the word to fix? Please, explain. HLDM is an aggressive game, and what makes this game interesting is precisely the fact that even when you’re 100/100, a guy with 1hp can kill you in basically one shot or less than 500 ms. How is that a problem? Develop.

Nice of you to notice this. defiantly it needs some work.

In general I have something on my mind which is ppoootie didly dooo.
I am getting tired of this pro talk.
Don’t get me wrong I am one of those myself or used to be pro.
But Im falling in love again. it reminds me of the first time I played hl1.
That is already enough im grateful about.

Sure it needs some movement like hl1 and what not but eh I am loving the magic black mesa brings to the table as well.
so what I can say but to everyone to shut the damn up and have patience.
I know what it is like to get strain on something you are already working on.
so to everyone. it is very simple be patient :slight_smile:

I think it is the most important right now. be practical in your feedback.
everything has already been said.

that said personally I probably wont gaME that much again, that has to do with the life phase I am at finally.
so what to I know :slight_smile:

If there is one game I would play occasionally it be this one that is what you already have managed to do damn you!!! :smiley:

If that last line of post doesn’t get a ton of likes you can all go fuck yourselves!!

Sorry I am under influence of alcohol right now :thumbsup:

EDIT: hahaha biggy disliked my post that is a good sign :smiley:

The image you gives of AG community is really faithful to what it really is vamp. Maybe it’ll eventually make people understand that I’m the only guy one can trust or listen to. :}

EDIT: you’re right, I’d rather like it in order to encourage you to show what AG players are. A bunch of alcoholic losers who believe they are or were some kind of “pro”, while they couldn’t even do a simple lateral move or score more than 30% accuracy with gluon.

have you forgotten how to make love bigggeuh? :* :stuck_out_tongue:

Visually, it may appear not-hitscan, but backend it should definitely be. I haven’t noticed it not being hitscan.

Is there a lag compensation @Fr0z3n? If yes, how did you implement it?

haha who cares what people are like, we play a game.
rather be anything like that then to be someone who pursuits his own ego godlike miss-function.

OOPS I just gave you a bite and food to reply back with.
Id admit you got some points here and there but goddamn would you be able to set this aside and be of actual use people would listen too.
If only.

That has always been your problem.

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.