Is the Universe Infinite?

I’ve never heard of the idea of an infinite universe, I always just thought it was accepted that the universe was finite but expanding and would either collapse on itself, of continue expanding forever.

Also, if we assume the universe’s contents are infinite and we assume the Big Bang theory is correct, then during the big bang matter there was a finite volume and an infinite mass. I’m not sure that’s possible, but I don’t know a lot about this so I may be wrong.

What if the universe is shaped like a sphere? All the planets are placed on the edge of this sphere and when you travel in space you are traveling along the surface area of the sphere. Just like people before Columbus, when traveling along the sphere you’d think you were traveling in a straight line when in truth you are slowly curving along a massive sphere. If you traveled long enough in one direction, you would eventually travel all the way around the sphere and end up back where you started. BTW, this is pretty much all ungrounded speculation, so don’t flame if it’s retarded.

It’s funny that you didn’t think of that when you were talking about the probability of drawing 1 from the interval [0,1].

According to the Theory of Relativity you cannot pass the borders, because no matter how fast you will be moving, the borders will be always escaping from you with the speed of light.

If the universe is a sphere, how do you explain going in different directions? You’d have to be going into the sphere, or away from it for that to be possible. There’d also have to be a center to the sphere, where objects have extreme curving.

Whether the universe is infinitely or finitely large, it has no borders.

And Solokiller, according to Stephen Hawking (if I remember correctly), the shape best comparable to the shape of the universe is a torus. You travel on the surface of that torus.
The problem with what you’re saying is that space doesn’t work that way.

I liken it to a circle. Finite, but boundless. Or perhaps a mobius strip or a klein bottle.

Anybody else remember Mad Scientist?

If he were here he could set this straight in a heartbeat.

Saying that we’re on the ‘surface’ of the universe bothers me, since that would imply that space is only in two dimensions which is obviously not right. I like to think the universe is infinite, existing with an infinite number of other universes. If the theories about the universe expanding faster than the speed of light are correct, then the universe is in a way infinite, I guess. We’ll never see the edge of it, so to us it may be, but objectively, probably not.

Of course we’re speaking objectively. Even if the universe was 100 000 000 times smaller, we would never have a chance to reach the edge, but that doesn’t make it infinite.

Yes, but what I was trying to say is that for us it may as well be infinite, whether it actually is or not.

I guess the idea is that the universe is the surface of a 4-dimensional ball. The surface of a 4-dimensional ball is 3-dimensional, just like the surface of a 2-dimensional ball (a.k.a. disc or circle) is 1-dimensional.

That would distort our concept or distance as well.

EDIT:

Yesterday or so I was thinking about the possibility of the universe not being a sphere, but a cylinder (a 3d cylinder inside the 4d space). I mean, if you tried to travel to the center of the universe (the origin of the big bang), you would get smaller and slower. Relatively to you, everything would get bigger, and you wouldn’t notice you are slower. But you would never reach the center, and you would be able to see entire universes which to us from Earth would be microscopic. If you did the opposite, i.e., travel in the opposite direction of the center, after a really long travel you would start to see our universe smaller (but it would be you actually getting bigger) and the universe would eventually turn into a microscopic thing, and there would be a new universe around you.

This is probably not the truth, but it would be cool. Specially if it was a torus, i.e., if the microscopic universe you reached was our own universe. And your friends would say: back already?

as like that.

the sphere is 3-dimensions object and if an ant walk straight around it,it will back to the origin.

with same reason, the universe is 4-dimensions object and if you travel into the same direction forever… you will back to the origin
:freeman:

interesting…

for one moment I didn’t see your post above, so I thought you bringed back this thread just to say that :smiley:

wrong. the ant walks on the outside of the sphere, while the hypothetycal situation of the universe being a sphere would locate us in the inside of it.

If the universe is infinite, it means that somwhere in here there have to be a unicorn. My logic is unbrakable.

Considering the stars and planets will eventually stop and empty space would make up the infinite. Your theory is breakable.

yes, i never deny

however
shape of the universe isn’t sphere the shape is depend on masses inside it.

https://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawkinsdotnet#p/a/D62809AD452EDB98/2/7ImvlS8PLIo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkxieS-6WuA&NR=1&feature=fvwp

…and look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE7xRgfPjAI

also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzMEAkI-yrQ&NR=1

I have just finished summarizing this lecture about the nature of the universe, where it came from, and where it is headed (here is another presentation of the same lecture, on youtube, which is shorter but also less complete).
The lecture is from last year, with very recent data and theories.

Here it is:

Thanks to Einstein we know that matter and energy cause space to curve. According to his equations, the curvature of space is relative to the energy-momentum inside it (curvature = energy-momentum)
This, however, posed a problem: gravity (i.e. energy) should cause galaxies to contract, which is contrary to observation. This led Einstein to add the cosmological term to the equation (curvature+cosmological term = energy-momentum), which was a very small force that would not be noticeable to us, but that would build up over distance so it’s strong enough to hold galaxies apart, resulting in the universe that was then thought to be static.

Later, Hubble confirmed beyond doubt that the universe is in fact expanding, and not static. He also discovered that other galaxies are moving away from us, relative to their distance to us. The further a galaxy is, the faster it moves away. This means that the universe is expanding uniformally in all directions and enables us to calculate the size of the universe, how fast it is expanding, and how old it is.
Now we are posed with a new question: is there enough gravity to slow down and reverse expansion?

After these discoveries, Einstein dropped the cosmological constant, calling it his biggest blunder. However, it turns out that there is in fact a cosmological constant, but in a different way and for different reasons: curvature = energy-moment + cosmological constant.

The constant is the energy needed for the universe to expand, and apparently it comes from empty space. That may sound like nonsense, but it’s actually completely reasonable in quantum mechanics.
Virtual particles pop in and out of existence on a timescale so short that they can’t be measured directly, but their effects can be measured indirectly. Most of the mass or energy of a proton comes from these virtual particles.
It was then concluded that the energy of empty space is 10^120 times the energy of all matter in the universe, which is an incredibly bad prediction, because in order for us to exist they must be roughly equal.
The number is much too high to cancel out somehow, so it must be zero, which is only possible if there is a fundamental symmetry in nature. Theorists knew this, but there was no evidence for it and observation didn’t agree with it.

In order to solve this problem, scientists had to measure the energy of the universe, using gravity. That way we could know what kind of universe we live in:
-A closed universe would eventually stop expanding and then start contracting.
-An open universe would expand forever.
-In a flat universe expansion would slow down, but never quite stop. It’s also the boundary between an open and a closed universe.

After ‘weighing’ the universe, it was concluded that the weight between galaxies was fifty times greater than the weight of galaxies themselves, which means that most of the mass in the universe is dark, and therefore called dark matter, a new elementary particle that’s present everywhere, but has not yet been observed.

So now we know the weight of the universe. In order to determine what kind of universe we live in, we have to compare the density of matter to the density of matter in a flat universe (matter density/matter density for a flat universe), expressed as Ω. If Ω > 1, our universe is closed. If Ω < 1, we live in an open universe. If Ω = 1, we live in a flat universe.
According to observation, Ω = ~.30, which would mean we live in an open universe.

Another way to find out what kind of universe we live in is to measure the curvature of the universe:
-In an open universe, light would be curved by .5°, and objects would appear smaller.
-In a flat universe, light would be curved by 1°, and objects would appear at their real size.
-In a closed universe, light would be curved by 2°, and objects would appear bigger.

Observation tells us that light coming from distant galaxies is curved by 1°. We know this with 1% accuracy, which is incredibly good. In other words, we know for a fact that our universe is flat.

This begs the question of where the remaining 70% of the energy needed for a flat universe is (the Ω ratio): it must be in empty space, which means there is a cosmological constant, which is a repulsive force. All of this fits perfectly with observations.

To sum up, we know today that our universe is flat. That means that its expansion will gradually slow down, but never stop, and that it came about out of nothing, through quantum mechanics. We also know that the matter in the observable universe is only a fraction of the matter in the entire universe, which only 30% of everything in the entire universe.

I think that pretty much answers the question of whether or not the universe is infinite.

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