Isn’t “will” something made up by humans?
Who said they have will, they are probably just performing their determined functions.
Determined functions, will, whatever. The point is, something made these prokaryotes more than just simple collections of organic molecules.
It just does what it does because it was made to do what it does.
Ever heard of the theory were someone asks you if you found a working watch on the beach, couldn’t there be a chance that materials just happened to align themselves that way by ridiculous chance?
ITT motherfuckers who can’t tolerate other religions
Basically, a chemical reaction between two substances, in which one is transformed into another, roughly. The more successfully a reaction does this, the higher the chance is that it occurs again.
Well, that’s what I just thought up right now, anyone can probably figure something like that vague out.
Edit: this was in reaction to Winged’s first post on the matter.
I think it’s more a question of chance than of will.
Chemical reactions that create conditions for the same reaction to occur again will have a higher chance of occurring, and will therefore be more abundant over time. It’s basically evolution in its simplest form.
A little pages too late pal, this page has a lot less hate in it, but glad to see you are contributing.
So how come no one wants to answer my question, I really want to know, what’s the difference between religion and a cult?
a religion is a name for a group of people who generally practice worship in a generally civilized manner whereas a cult is a name for a group of people who practice worship in a generally uncivilized/not to well looked upon manner.
Cults also usually practice in secret everywhere as normal society would deem what they do as immoral or uncivilized.
I’ve heard of that ridiculous hypothesis (it’s not a theory)[/SIZE]. Every time I hear it, I have to 
(which follows by a real life 
when I see it used seriously).
If you are trying that argument seriously, then :’( But, let’s say that you are:
You are trying to go from raw materials to a super-advanced complex structure without any intervening steps (ignoring the fact that watches are not alive). I mean, seriously. How ridiculous is this argument? :meh:
I’ll take advice from the person who uses smiley faces instead of words…
But blocking out a possibility (even though it is far fetched) and calling it ridiculous is a little close minded don’t you think?
Edit: also if I said I believed in angels and demons you would laugh as well?
It’s a personal habit to skip over posts with more smileys then paragraphs.
Okay, fine. No smilies.
I don’t think it’s closed minded at all, unless you think that “open-mindedness” requires all possibilities be granted equal measure. I don’t. It isn’t open-mindedness at all to suggest that “the moon is made of rock” is just as believable as “the moon is made of swiss cheese”.
The “watch” argument is ludicrously flawed and doesn’t stand up to even the most basic surface questioning.
EDIT: I wouldn’t laugh at you at all if you said that you believed in angels and demons. If you ask ME to believe in them, however…
I never said equal grant, I meant that closing it off completely is a little close-minded.
Could you actually post some of those flaws?
So that isn’t as ridiculous. I see.
No, the arguments used for why you believe in angels and demons are ridiculous, but not that you believe in them.
I’m sorry if you feel that closing my mind completely to the possibility of the moon being made of swiss cheese is a little closed-minded. I don’t see it as being closed-minded at all because, until I see some pretty strong evidence (stronger than the evidence that I already see that the moon is made of rock), there’s no possible way of even giving it the time of day.
As for the flaws in the argument (which I’ve already partially laid out but you were concentrating on my use of the smilies), let’s start with the largest: Watches are not alive. They do not reproduce no matter how much Barry White you play.
Next, this argument suggests that you can go from 0 (raw materials) to 100 (working watch) without anything else in between. Where are the baby watches? Where are the elder watches? Extinct watches? This is an extension of the first argument in that watches are not alive.
After that, you have the fact that there are thousands of watchmakers out there making millions of watches. There is AMPLE evidence that this watch on the beach was made by man. There is ZERO evidence that this watch came about by any other method.
It’s not just farfetched to suggest that the watch came about by any other method, but it REQUIRES a truckload of evidence to show that did NOT come about by the hands of a watchmaker.
Again, I’m sorry if you think this is closed-minded, but there’s a difference between what I call closed-minded (mind made up even in contravention of the evidence) and what you consider to be closed-minded.
If ever there were any two paragraphs in this topic that I couldn’t agree more with, it’d be these two.
I’m an Atheist myself, but I’m no extremist. I have my beliefs, and I believe that if someone wants to be Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, Mormon, or any other religion, they have every right to be. I, however, am not going to practice the religions.
On the other hand, I- like many others that have stated the same -hate having religion shoved down my throat. Which was never a big deal back where I lived in Pennsylvania, as religion isn’t as big as it is in Georgia, but here… If it becomes known that you aren’t Christian, and that you don’t attend church every Wednesday and Sunday, you are pretty much shunned by all.
That is one of the fears of mine. At my work, the subject comes up every now and again about which church my coworkers attend and which functions they go to. I fear one of these days that one of my coworkers will ask me which church I go to, and I don’t know how to answer that question without getting involved in a potential argument.
That’s a pretty big problem in my school, as well.
I don’t like parading my beliefs around on my shoulders, so to speak. I keep mine to myself, though I tell the truth if I’m asked.
As for Johnkiller saying religion is dangerous, I can’t say I agree.
Christians/Muslims/other religious people commit crimes, murder, etc. just as much as non-religious people do. It’s just that people don’t want to take responsibility for their actions, and once the consequences fall on them, they try to use religion as a scapegoat for their actions.
That’s how I look at it, anyway.
To me, it’s a relatively simple matter:
Religion = Cult + Number of adherents + Time
Any religion could be considered a cult by the definition of cult and any cult can be considered a religion. Christianity, for example, worships its founder (Jesus*) as God himself.
- Other say it’s Paul/Saul, but I’m not getting into that right now.[/SIZE]
If anything, I think Christians/Muslims/other religious people on average commit more crimes. Note that the percentage of the population that actually commits crimes is, y’know, fairly small.
Some of these crimes (or even less than kind actions), of course, have nothing to do with their religion and would be committed by a believer and non-believer alike.
Sometimes people of some religions may be tempted to do things because they think they can simply ask for forgiveness (more or less exclusive to non-crimes).
And some people are motivated by their religious beliefs to do things like shoot doctors who work at abortion clinics.
Of course, trying to figure out what truly motivates people is an interesting question. Do people do things or believe things because their religion tells them to (and if so, what areas does this apply to) or do they typically pick religions that validate their own beliefs?
https://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2009/11/creating_god_in_ones_own_image.php
Personally, I think it depends. For example, I doubt people would think using electronics on Saturday is a big no-no without religion. On the flip side, many people have an emotional reaction to things such as abortion would be “pro-life” regardless…then you also have the “Cafeteria Catholics” in America who are pro-choice, which is interesting.
In general, I only care what someone believes when they try to force that on me in one way or another. Unfortunately, in a democracy, this tends to happen every election, of course. You also have people trying to insert Creationism into science classes instead of history and various other things…but the people who are actively pushing things like that aren’t your “typical” Christian, to be fair. However, most “typical” Christians also don’t seem to have an issue with that and give tacit consent.
In regards to a question a page or two back about “will to survive,” I was under the impression that assigning a “will” to creatures without a brain didn’t make much sense. I believe there’s an idea that basically everything we do is a function of our genes trying to survive (and we are our genes), but as I haven’t taken a biology class past high school, I wouldn’t be the person to ask on that.
The very idea of a “will” is also interesting…as most things seem to point at the idea of “mind/body” duality as being flawed, aka the notion of a separate soul that controls the brain…instead of the brain being the brain.
Oh, and Scientology is fine. I’ll even give you fine ladies and gentlemen a special discount on our goods for the next 72 hours, so call now! 1-800-IMCRAZY