Enemies and obstacles

Black Mesa Archive Suggestion Box
#1

As I played the L4D2 demo, I noticed that no object was really an obstacle for the zombies. They just jump over it or climp over it.

Then I remembered back in HL2, where zombies were behind an old car, with stucking animations and trying to get around.

Now my suggestions is, to implement a better path finding or the ability to push away physical objects and jump over static objects. Especially for the Agrunts this would make sense in my eyes.

I would really dislike if a huge creature is stucking behind a small static prop, unable to reach the player and trying slowly to get around.

#2

L4D2 uses the AI director, HL2 uses a node system to guide npc’s. Black mesa uses HL2’s system for pathfinding, so it’s up to the level designers, and the AI pathfinding code for it to work properly.

#3

Is there really any point in suggesting something like that at this juncture in the development process? Why not suggest they do Opposing Force rather than Half-Life? :what:

#4

“To stuck” is not a verb.

#5

I’d rather feel safe. In general big stuff is big fucking problems.

on topic: No. Just, no.

#6

Yea, it would be cool if the soldiers could do that, it would make sense because they are human, but it’s really much to late at this point :frowning:

#7

You’d probably have to rewrite the AI code and the way Source handles pathfinding and all that shit.

#8

Zombies will behave as they do in HL2, this is their canonical behaviour.

In fact, zombies in Half Life 2 are supposed to have poor navigational behaviour as they are the most basic enemy. You don’t see combine soldiers having problems navigating, so I find it unlikely that any of the more intelligent enemies will have problems navigating.

#9

Mr Mangled - That’s a good point, do you think it was a deliberate intention of Valve then?

#10

Definitely, and it’s pretty easy to program AI to act in certain ways if their route to the player is blocked. Just like the zombies are programmed to hit barrels at the player if there’s one positioned somewhere near the area between the zombie and the player. You notice zombies will actively navigate towards these barrels to hit them. This is because the Source engine’s nodegraph system is very effective… the AI are actively aware of any non-static objects in their immediate area and their collision models and so know how to navigate around them. IIRC static objects are treated as level geometry when the nodegraphs are created and so they are made to navigate around them.

Vortigaunts, for example could easily be programmed to attack physics objects that are blocking their sight or path to the player, breaking crates or pushing other objects away with their electric attack. Similarly so, human soldiers could be programmed to use grenades against objects in their way or simply to retreat to a further back position where they can wait for the player to pass over the obstacle.

#11

I remember the little warehouse in We got hostiles (HL1), with a lots of crates in it. I kept hiding behind these crates, and the soldiers’ bullet bursts were slowly destroying the crates, until there were practically none left. It felt extremely realistic to me, and pumped up the tension.

Second thing to note is that L4D and L2D are zombie horror splatter movies. The zombies are intended to be formidable. That’s why they can climb any obstacle. I can’t imagine, however, how it would be “human” from a human soldier to:

  1. holster his weapon.
  2. Start climbing over a fence, exposing his belly to player’s weapon fire.
  3. Keep climbing, then do some “flip” at the end, jumping down all the time being totally exposed to anyone who would bother to look.
  4. Draw his weapon again.

I call that moronic, not human.

#12

Exactly!

#13

I dun care where or how they move. Either way, they can’t run from Chicago Andy! :rabies:

#14

Although it would be neat to make enemies behave like so, I doubt it’ll happen.

#15

I actually like the suggestion but realize it might be a little late for the change in the AI. However Id like to learn more on how AI works. Can someone link a site where i (and other ppl) could learn the basics

#16

At least better then “Oh shit, there is a crate on my way, i have to walk around it to get pass it” in half-life 2.

#17

At least the zombies already have the ability to punsh physical objects out of their way and HL2 NPCs also can run over low increases and through physical objects (if they aren’t that heavy).

I only think that huge enemies,the Agrunts for example should also be able to smash physical things out of their way or destroy it (crates for example) instead of walking around.

Also I imagine how cool it would be if Bullsquids would perform their swirling attack to destroy crates or let other physical objects fly out of their way (and maybe also hit the player like the zombies do).

I think it wouldn’t be that much of work, if simply that part of the zombie code could be reused and recycled for the other heavier enemy types.

Also in a few situations it could be scripted. For example if the Gargantua creature moves cars out of its way.

#18

Cheers,

Its definitely the basics but I’ll definitely check out more on the site! Looks like it could get complex but also quite a lot of fun.

edit: [when it works]

#19

hey, and if the enemies could break some obstacles, like wooden crates?

#20

Ummm… don’t combine soldiers already do some of these things? (I haven’t played HL2)

Since the Combine AI is being used for the grunts this should be sorted

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.