Co-op suggestions/discussion

Black Mesa Archive Suggestion Box
#1

[COLOR=‘Red’]raw_bean edit: Bear in mind the current dev standpoint on Co-op is that it will NOT be in the initial release of BM. Addition of the co-op mode at a later date remains a possibility.

There was a thread months ago with the same topic, but because of the crash it isn’t existent anymore.

But I think it is important to figure out solutions for several problems + suggest and discuss any features, which would be nice to have:

Here we go:

1. Map change trigger:
When should a map change start?

1.1 If one player reaches the map change entity trigger?

1.2 Only if every player reaches a map change area?
(would be a problem, if a player is currently afk or blocked by an object)

2. Weapon, ammo, Item, health and energy transition:
The biggest fun killer in co-op mods like Sven Co-op was the fact, that you weren’t able to take your weapons with you into the next level. In BM co-op, the HUD and weapon status should be transfered on map change.

3. Weapon & ammo dropping:
Should it be possible to be able to give others your weapons and ammo? At least in SC it was fun to give others your ammo or weapons, if they run out of ammunition. Maybe this feature should also be added to BMC.

4. Weapon and ammo:

[i]4.1 Should the optimized Black Mesa co-op maps offer more weapons and ammo, so that all players get everything or should the players ration it by themself?

4.2 Should all weapons and ammo appear for every player seperately (all items exist at the same place, but every player only sees one, which is for himself) to prevent any injustices?[/i]

5. The suit:
I think a nice solution would be to have a suit for every player in the different suit containers, instead of let them take the same suit at the same position. The only problem would be, that co-op is planned for 4 players, but there are only 3 suit containers in that room.

6. Death: What should happen, if a player dies?

6.1 Should there exist unlockable spawn points (which are unlocked, if a player reaches them while), where he can simply respawn?

6.2 Should the other players simply have to play the rest of the map without him (dead players would first respawn in the next map again)?

6.3 Should all players have to play the whole map again?

7. Health and Power:
Should it be able to heal other players or to give them energy?
Maybe players could also be able to transfer their suit energy (only for energy not health, because that wouldn’t make sense) to another player.

And btw: I don’t know how it is handled in other mp games, but will all the players see the dynamic shadows from another players flash light? And doesn’t it look strange, if a flash light shines from nowhere?

#2

In the old Counter-Strike 1.6, you could see other players’ flashlights, I think.

For weapons, I like the idea that there would not be that much more available stuff, as to encourage sharing and stuff. You wouldn’t get 4 players with shotguns, but 1 might use the pistol, one the SMG, one with a crowbar, and one with the shotgun, and ammo would be more critical.

#3

Text written like this are my comments.

#4

that achievement is the single funnest halo 3 achievement i have ever gotten… but then again, i enjoy Cortana on legendary

#5

It’s not up to us to fix the problems the devs encounter when making parts of the game, we just discuss and suggest stuff here.

#6

Okay, just so Im clear, this would be online co-op right? I think there should be different “styles” of co-op, one like synergy, where everyone gets the same weapons, but ammo and heath is a
first come, first served" way. one where weapons, ammo and health are all limited. since I am not a developer, I don’t know how long something like those would be to do, but if i had to chose between the two of my ideas, I’d rather have same weapons for everyone, but limited ammo/health

#7

I think that all the ammo and health should be the same for all players, but the amount of all that would be determined on the difficult setting. On easy you could get easily enough of supplys and on hard it would not give you that much of health and ammo. This could also increase the need of sharing ammo on hard mode.

I’m interested about the puzzles of the Co-op, will there be any puzzles that require teamwork?

#8

[color=‘Gray’](I’m mostly making a post so I can remember to check up on this thread.)[/size]

Co-op is my most desired feature. In fact I’d rather have a smooth HL1 co-op than the rest of Black Mesa’s fantastic modernization. I’m interested in the developer weigh-in on most of these questions.

Level transition appears to be one of the hardest decisions. A while ago I suggested a plausible approach in which players drift into the transition zone until they stop, and are locked on that axis of movement (with the ability to aim) until they retreat from it (or all players enter|trigger it).

#9

[COLOR=‘Red’]Moving this to the Suggestion Box.

#10

Have you tried Sven Co-op? They finished a multiplayer (with HD pack) HL1 a few of months ago, it runs pretty smoothly. They’re also working on an Op4 co-op at the moment.

Suggestions:

  • All players get the HEV suit at the start, just all run into the same container (Or put HEV suits in 4 lockers :stuck_out_tongue: )…

  • Keeping the same weapons/ammo on map change is not expected, but would be really nice.

  • As for the ammo, in Sven Co-op it just respawns after about 20 seconds from when a player picks it up, I have no problems with this method.

  • Health sharing… once again the Sven Co-op method would be recommended. Giving each player a health pack which he can ‘fire’ at a friend to heal them, also HEV energy transfer would be great too.

  • Enemies… I think to keep the game interesting with all the added bonuses of 4 players, there should be a large increase in the amount of enemies you encounter and also increased health for said enemies.

  • Level transition should occur only when ALL surviving players reach the end of the level, areas in which the path behind is blocked should immediately teleport all surviving members to after the blocked area. (This is of course if the L4D method is used, in which players die and stay dead until a new map -closets)

Remember that playing a game intended for single player with a 4 person group, means that the actual immersion/realism itself is traded off for fun, at least in my experience. Most people will be laughing too much at a friend who just got tail whipped by a Bull Squid outta nowhere to care if the ammo next to them just re- spawned.

#11

Uh, I’m not a programmer, so this MAY sound very, very stupid, but… you guys have all the Episode 2 engine resources, right? They’re free to use? And L4D is running on the Ep2 Engine… would its assets be included in that? You could, uh, probably use a lot of L4D’s assets to help make BM’s coop run more smoothly, using their systems like healing other players, gun and ammo sharing, the way player deaths are handled, etc. I mean, the AI is all already there to make a coop game work well. Can it be used that way at all? Or am I a retard?

And on the heels of that thought, regardless of whether or not L4D can be used, will you be taking inspiration more from that system, or a system more like Sven Coop?

#12

IIRC they were trying to limit it to use only HL2 base content and their own, as they removed all CS: S content from the mod. The only thing they’re using from the orange box games is the orange box engine itself.

#13

L4D code is not released, therefor we cannot use any part of l4d besides maps, models, and textures…

#14

Thanks for all your responses!

Well, would make me really sad, if they would decide to cut it completely. :[

#15

Wrong. L4D got Source engine 30 or something.

#16

Does it means that we could expect an engine upgrade of BM when the L4D code is available? :retard:

#17

The L4D code isn’t going to be available (same as TF2, Half-Life: Source or Portal)

#18

What? Who told you that?

Last time I checked SDK supports these games…

#19

L4d code ( same with DODS, CSS, & TF2) is not released to the public…I doubt it ever will

Implying otherwise is foolish.

#20

Looks like I’m a fool :fffuuu:

Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.