This isn’t so much a bug or glitch as it is a problem with the way the game is, in general.
One thing that HL1 and HL2 never made me do was ‘whore’ my save button.
When playing HL2 there were enough difficult zones, and the puzzles were ‘forgiving’ enough that, if you failed one. It would not result in your certain death, (at least not immediately).
Whereas in BMS. This is not at all the case.
Take for instance these situations:
In one chapter. You are forced to jump between a bunch of suspended boxes to get from one side of a room to another. Falling/Failing to make a perfect jump results in an instant death, to which you are returned to an earlier point in the chapter, unless you whore your saves and save right before each attempt at the jump.
In another chapter. You are required after following pipes along a fast moving river of radioactive waste, to turn a valve which moves a hollowed out pipe to create a makeshift bridge. You then turn around, go down a ladder in the middle of a piece of the pipe and proceed to try and jump through them. Falling/failing results in an instant death. The jump, whilst at first, looks easy, is quite hard because the middle pipe moves back and forth whilst it is suspended.
When coming to the chapter with the Xen beast living in the Silo. When moving past the beast and its huge bladed tentacles/claws. There is no ‘skilful’ way at dodging the beast. Getting hit even once, is enough to kill you in almost 1 hit on Hard. 2 on Normal and 2-3 on Easy. One simply has to save right before making a run-for-it. Then one simply blasts around in circles, praying to god that they don’t get hit more than once by the beast’s arms. It is possible to get from the bottom to the top, and vice versa without being hit once. But it takes quite a lot of tries. This sort of gameplay, (saving right before a scene like this) allows a player to ‘skip’ an extremely hard part of the game and emerge completely unharmed. Because there is no mechanic that allows the player to skilfully dodge or defend themselves against the beast. ergo, there is no cover to hide behind and the explosive satchels have a tiny blast radius and are often knocked away from the beast. On top of that, they only work on the upper floors and won’t help you if you are trying to get from the bottom, back up to the top. Leaving you just the option to leg it.
There are a million more situations where one needs to whore saves in order to get past certain challenges that could easily kill them in 1-2 failures. Forcing players to play ‘perfectly’ within the game’s mechanic is horrible and not what I, or many people I know, consider fun. But more ‘frustrating’.
In other levels, you can fall into toxic waste. Certain ‘vats’ of toxic waste hurt the player far more than others. So even if a ladder is nearby, one cannot simply swim out and ‘just survive’ before they are killed by the waste in which they fell into. I’ve found that most areas of toxic waste, in which one is allowed to get out of, via either a ladder somewhere, or some other semi-obvious way. These said areas damage the player far more than ones in which there is almost no ‘obvious’ way to get out of. Maybe this was the intended point of the developer. To force you to endure a slow agonising death whilst you search for a way out of the waste. vs. watching you die quickly as you make a break for the nearest ladder. All in all, it doesn’t force me to do anything except reload a previous save because falling into one of those waste pools, almost always results in my death. Especially at higher difficulty settings.
‘Difficulty’ in any of these situations is only tantamount to basically ‘luck’ or ‘trial and error’, rather than actual ‘player skill’. Whereas, no matter how bad you are at playing a game, simple determination and patience is all that one needs to beat any of these puzzles.
If one is not so good at jumping/dodging etc. they simply make a ton of saves after successfully performing each jump until they are out of the area. In my days as a gamer, I have found this is a horrible ply in certain games. Where one is forced to abuse the ‘quick save’ feature, or equivalent in order to get past a difficult area, in which skill is not required, but instead simply patience and a bit of luck is.
This can’t really be fixed at all unless the devs go back to a lot of the areas and create cover etc. or make a few of the jumps a bit easier. Or if the devs update the keybinds to bind jump+crouch together by default. Unfortunately BMS is one of those games where perfection is required to get past certain areas.
I think its far more fun to emerge from a difficult situation by the skin of your teeth whilst fighting hard and using your surroundings to your advantage. Rather than having to perfectly aim for that platform, or hope that the Silo beast is just a little too slow to get you. etc.
That’s not the point. I played both HL1 and HL2. Neither of them, (especially HL1) had situations like this where you had to be perfect, to avoid an instant death and an instant reload of your previous save.
HL2 had a few annoying areas, like the bridge where if you fell, while trying to deactivate the barrier, resulted in your death. And another where traversing a lot of radioactive waste, and falling in resulted in a huge loss of health, that almost always resulted in your death. These were fine because they were few and far in between. Throw in a few enemies etc. for atmosphere and to make you sweat, and you had a good time. But BMS just stacks these one-on-top-of-the-other. Over and over and over. It gets incredibly annoying when, through trial and error you have to run past the Silo beast 6 times without getting hit more than once, just to make sure you turned the power on, etc.
Did you even read most of my initial post?
As I just explained above, they weren’t really, actually. It was far easier to make those jumps and there was a lot more room on the obstacles/platforms to make the jumps. On top of that, you could jump really far in HL1.
Dying almost immediately from toxic waste seems stupid when Gordon is wearing the Hazmat suit it could just be my personal preference but what is the point in including a ladder at the edge of those radioactive pools, if falling in results in so much damage that one dies almost immediately? In many situations, one can simply slip in (not fall from a point so high that he would have certainly died).
I find it more of a punishment to have to reload my saves all the time.
Far as the Xen beast is concerned, you’re given a ton of grenades in that area to use to distract the thing while you make your way around. Top to bottom and back to top I don’t think I died once, you’re not supposed to just ‘make a run for it’.
@DerKrauthammer I already stated that explosives don’t do much, if anything at all in distracting it. On top of that I also stated that, that only really works when you’re going from top-to-bottom. Also, the satchels and grenades get knocked around a lot and often explode too far away from the beast or when they do explode next to it, they have no affect.
I don’t care. I stated in the first line of this thread that this isn’t so much a bug, as it is a problem with the game itself. Did you even bother to read anything at all?
Okay, so you and I have our differences. I’ve played thousands of games, and any that force you to constantly reload, or perform flawlessly, I think should be put down to silly programming, over anything else.
BMS is a fantastic game for what it is. But after 7 years of development, the end result leaves something to be desired, and is quite full of bugs. The forums here are really filling up.
So basically you are complaining because the game offers you a challenge?
Would you like me to hold your hand when you next play? Or if it’s really too difficult for you perhaps I should play it for you and you can pay me.
And actually, in response to your complaint about the Tentacles in Blast Pit I have to say that they are extremely easy to avoid. You throw a couple of grenades over to the opposite side to where you are heading and they completely ignore you. I wasn’t hit once.
You need to change your mentality and the way you approach the game. You cannot run into a fire fight like you could in the original. Now you actually have to use that pink blob in your skull more.
I’m finding that I am using far more trip mines, crossbow and satchel charges than I did in the original. There are a great deal of situations where I now have to come up with a quick plan to deal with the problems rather than just run in and blast everything with the MP5.
Basically, a lot of people are upset because they now have to use their brain a great deal more than in the original.
Typical reply from an ignorant person who fails to get the point. It’s not a challenge, and it’s not ‘hard’ if difficulty and skill have nothing to do with it, and patience and luck are all that is needed to persevere.
facepalm
P.S. I’m probably better at playing than you are, I wouldn’t pay you, if you paid me double lol…
I would agree that certain parts of the game require too many quicksaves, but I haven’t had it that drastic as you, the game was easy enough for me. The only part that I was frustrated and needed quicksaves was the Lambda teleportation place with the spinning platforms. That part was awful, especially with the hat.
But that was the only place I needed to abuse the quicksaves… I think you’re either exaggerating or just complaining because you got frustrated.
Those jumps are easy and only require that you don’t rush through like you have ADHD.
As before, that jump is also easy, the pipe doesn’t move enough to affect you so much that you fall to your death, that’s the result of either bad placement or just being very bad at jumping.
That part isn’t luck, it’s using your brain. The security guard said to be quiet because they hear you. The other one was yelling and got killed. By that point you should understand that you need to be quiet. The grenades are there to distract them in case they get too close or hear you. If you banging your feet across like a marching band, of course the grenades won’t work.
I suggest you play the game instead of over exaggerating and complaining because you got frustrated due to your impatience and inattentive actions. I understand that you’re irritated, but just take these people’s suggestions and replies into mind.
Out of curiosity: had OP ever played Wolf 3D or original Doom “back at those times”? BMS is actually just the same WRT saves as it was in Doom/Doom 2/Heretic/Hexen times. Save-Try-Reload-Try-Reload-Try-Reload-Try-PERFECT!-Save. Rinse, repeat.
It’s just a way single player FPS of that era were meant to be played, nothing more.
Do you like it or not is a matter of another question. As for me - I’m not really fun of save-reload approach but don’t think it’s a show-stopper either.
Same as the guy abovethe guy above me said(damn ninjas) , without the insults. As for the tentacle, your supposed to be quiet. You need to crouch to stay silent. Redirect it with grenades. Same as in hl1.
In response to the rest of your complaints : Half Life was partly a puzzle game, hence obstacles that result in instant death. Pure shooters like cod and that cruff don’t have those ( except " action sequences "). Also, I went through the entire game first time without manual or quicksaves. Only died about six times ( most at the end of QE), auto saves were more than sufficient.
Also in regards to the tentacle beast. The higher the difficulty, the " smarter " It seems. Ie : it stays distracted for a shorter period of time. Adds a bit of extra difficulty. You really need to time your throws and movements so you make the most distance.
So… the gimped jump that makes almost no sense? Yeah, explain to me why it isn’t like that in HL2 because I don’t get it.
The Xen creature on the other hand… that’s an awful amount of grenades to be wasting like that. If you haven’t notice yet, you don’t get many of these and would be wise to conserve on them. That and you wouldn’t want to draw it’s attention by running around since you could just crouch-walk.
Yeah, there’s a point in which excessive trial-and-error just becomes frustrating and annoying making someone to quit the game. Nobody wants that and I definitely don’t want military grunts bestowed with robotic powers. Heh, realism.
The Lambda place you mention is even worse than the beast. I just got up to that an hour ago and found it almost impossible to pass the area without saving after each attempt.
Trust me, I haven’t even remotely gotten frustrated. This isn’t one of those games that gets you frustrated. The entire HL series isn’t a game that makes you frustrated. Ninja Gaiden is, HL, absolutely not.
Maybe its easy if you bind the keys together. But holding SHIFT to sprint, and then swapping in mid air to CTRL to crouch so you make the jump isn’t exactly easy. The game also has a mechanic where if it thinks that you failed a jump, you can’t move whilst in mid-air and instead fall to your death. My gripe was that the current default key-bind is not ‘optimized’ for the insane jumps and etc. that this game requires.
It was just an example, and the third and final piece of the pipe is very high up compared the other. So normally you just miss it and instead fall. Go and check again. I found the only way to complete it was to partially run up the wall and crouch jump through it. I don’t think that all jumps in the game should be achievable in just 1 go, but some of them are just stupid. The game is version 1.0. and some things need fixing for sure.
Maybe I missed that, because I don’t remember the guy telling me to crouch and sneak around. I tried to crouch twice and I still got sliced by those arms. So I didn’t bother again. But yeah, maybe I missed that hint, there is another thread here: https://forums.blackmesasource.com/showthread.php?t=14017
With loads of people complaining about the lack of hints. Sure I find the game challenging enough as it is, and I don’t agree with those guys. But yeah, okay, maybe I missed that I was supposed to be quiet. I just don’t really see the point seeing as it auto-attacks every 1-2 seconds and can hit you even if you’re just standing in the doorway… I already explained that grenades, and explosive satchels don’t do anything.
I’m not over exaggerating you clown. Rather than telling me to ‘soldier on’ sit back for a moment and think of how many games that you have played that require you to play perfectly, and don’t allow any mistakes before you die and are forced to reload. Maybe those stupid arcade Atari games that rob you of your money force you to do that, but BMS shouldn’t. It’s my 2 cents.
Yes I have played Wolf 3D. Though I played it on easy about what… 10 years ago when I was a kid. The only part I found hard was killing Hitler. The rest of the game was easy as. Doom on the other hand was hard, but that was the kind of game it was back then.
My ‘statement’ is in no way a ‘game-killer’. I don’t care if the game is like this at all, it’s an amazing game, and its free. Not that it would matter to me, or not. But the point is, I just find some scenes a little ‘groan-worthy’ because I know that I need to start warming up my quicksave key…
Like I said, I might have missed this due to the fact that the beast is extremely loud, auto-attacks every 1-2 seconds, can hit you through the door, seems to cover the entire floor and move around easily, has eyes on each of its tentacles and can see where you are, and grenades and explosive satchels don’t do shit all. I’ll try sneaking next time and see how that goes.
I hate COD, and shooters without any ‘substance’. Enough said.
I’m playing on Hard. Human enemies are a snap. Everything else kills you pretty easily, but is still pretty easy to kill to be honest if you just look around corners. I came to this conclusion after I couldn’t see a difference between Normal and Easy, and found the first part of the game too easy to be a challenge, even after being stupid.
Trololo, and you obviously can’t count to 5… I don’t know why you wasted your time even replying to this thread you dumbass.
I agree… though I seem to be accidentally killing myself with explosives in the first half of the game all the time, because its faster than shooting enemies to death. In the second half I seem to be getting slaughtered by grunts and mobs of enemies because I’m holding off on using explosives lmfao.
I will never quit the game and it doesn’t make me that frustrated that I will rage quit. The only game I have ever, in my life rage quit is a sci-fi kinda Star-Wars-y racing game that I played on the Xbox 360 which, at hardest difficulty was the hardest game I have ever played and what I considered pretty much impossible. After checking Youtube I found that only a few people could beat, only a few tracks on hardest. I wish I remembered what it was called but I can’t…
Agreed, but… there are at least two examples of excellent (IMHO) games that require you to be perfect and punish you with deaths for any error: LIMBO and Dark Souls. That being said, I could state once again that I’m not a fan of the way BM forces you to spam save/load.
Maybe, ~20 years, no? I remember playing it when I was kid in 1994. And on hard it was about the same level tough as Doom on “Ultra Violence”. Huh, I’m a bit nostalgic about those times.
Yep, I feel the same.
Crouching/sneaking won’t help. And even using “sv_maxspeed” hack to “fix” +walk which is de-facto broken currently in BM won’t help either: the beast would magically notice you even if you produce no sound at all. BM has broken this game mechanic compared to what it were in original GldSrc HL and in HL:S “remake”. Using explosives to distract the beast really helps though - I manage to pass the chamber without being hit once using as low as two grenades to distract the beast. You’re given more than enough grenades in the beginning of this map to normally play it through (unless you spend all the explosives on something else like killing zombies or headcrubs :-D).
I’m confused as to why I’ve not run into any issues with the Tentacle. I’ve always been able to distract it.
You people know you can’t “sneak” on ladders right? I find throwing a grenade about four seconds before you climb, and then another RIGHT before you climb, so the explosion goes off once you are off the ladder, helps.
Well, actually, it is a problem with YOU. It is YOU who do not like the game as it is. I, for one, have no problem with it.
True, but then HL2 was a bit more puzzle oriented, was it not? HL2 had the advantage of a (then) state of the art physics engine to allow a plethora of new puzzles and puzzle styles to evolve and become part of the gameplay.
I got it on the first or second try, anybody else have ridiculous problems with this section? I didn’t. Also, I believe the auto save is right next to the start of that puzzle. This puzzle was also directly modeled from the original game. I agree, it would be nice to have a platform just far enough down that it removes, say, 20 health each time you fall. Thus, you get several attempts before you die. But still, this was not a very difficult puzzle.
Lol, sometimes the easiest solution is not the most obvious one at hand. I think you’ll find that if you raise the pipe enough so that it is not quite all the way lined up, it will be much, much easier to jump onto the top of the suspended pipe, and then into the second part.
Again, grenades DO work, and the best WILL attack you if it hears you. the idea here is to be skilled at timing your movements, (going bottom to top) crouch+walk until you reach the bottom ladder and then throw a grenade, just before the grenade explodes, begin climbing the ladder. Thus, the Xen monster will be concentrating on the top floors while you are sneaking about, and attacking the bottom floor (because of the grenade) when you are traversing the top stories. Vice versa for going the opposite direction. It is true that the grenades are a little buggy, as if it doesn’t land in the correct spot the Xen monster may simply ignore it. Grenades will only work to distract the monster down to the bottom floor, as I have found, not the direction in which it is attacking.
Remember I stated earlier that HL2 and other recent games have the advantage of more advanced physics engines to combine with puzzles, to make them a little more interesting. Also, have you never played the original Mario? That game was a bitch about perfection, but look how popular it was/is. I do agree partially with this statement however, more than once I have been stuck in a situation that required ‘save whoring’.
Take for example: I was at the end of a relatively empty tunnel and about to push a button to open a roller door to the outside. However, on the other side of the door was ~ 5 or so guards, and no immediate cover. (They were only 10 or so meters from me). I only had 12 health and a shotgun, and I couldn’t run back into the tunnel, as approximately 10 or so meters back inside the tunnel was the level load point, (and no cover anyway). This part took me a while.
Of this I cannot testify for/against, as I have only fallen in toxic waste once. However, I can see how this would be rather annoying, should you not be skilled enough in the art of crouch + jumping.
I disagree, for the jumping puzzles, it is about your platforming skill, how well you can time your jumps, and time the switch between the sprint and crouch keys. Also, determination and patience are all you ever need to solve almost any puzzle. Be it in art, science, construction or, in this case, video gaming. Your level of skill determines how quickly you can complete these puzzles.
I am beginning to believe that either your view of skill is very narrowed, or, very skewed. There are more skills than just tactics/combat and physics based puzzles, et cetera. Platforming is also a skill.
So then, what would you propose occur instead of a platforming puzzle?
Your method of ‘save a bunch of times’ can be applied to almost any situation, not just the platforming puzzles. The developer is not forcing you to save after every jump, you yourself are. Again, your level of skill is determinate of how easily you accomplish the task. If you have to save after every jump, you must not have very good platforming skill.
How do you think they fix other bugs? They have to go back and find the source of the bug then edit it in code, or in level design.
No, perfection would be required if you had to crouch jump the maximum distance possible onto a platform of only 1 pixel. For this, you merely require enough skill to hit the platform. It requires more skill if you have to crouch mid-air after a sprint + jump. If the game didn’t have these puzzles, it would, in it’s entirety, be a game about running down corridors shooting at enemies. Then you would complain that it is too boring, too uniform and lacking variety of skills required, you would complain that as long as you could aim your gun, you could win the game.
And that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, now here’s mine:
I also think that it is fun to only just make it through a difficult situation, however, more than once I have only just made a jump because I jumped too early, or I crouched too late, didn’t aim as well as i should have. As for the silo beast, that is where the game puts you on the edge of your seat, hoping that he (or she) is distracted by the grenade long enough for you to run past. That, my friend, is completing a puzzle by the skin of your teeth, which is what you so heartily enjoy.
If you have to ‘save whore’ it shows your clear lack of skill. If you were skilled you would not have to save after every jump, as you would be able to complete the whole sequence without being crushed/electrocuted/drowned/poisoned et cetera. For someone who is so arrogant about their level of skill, you clearly overlooked the ramifications of this post.
Finally, Half life was renowned for it’s ability to mix genres into one complete game, that is one reason why it was so popular. It managed to successfully mix FPS, puzzle based shooter, platformer, and a hint of RPG (as the game was very plot driven, unlike most modern shooters which use some weak plot as an excuse to put you into more places with more guns and more enemies for the simple purpose of making money) among others. If you don’t like the platforming side of the game, play something else, or ‘save whore’/cheat your way past it, no one is forcing you to play these sequences.
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