There is no way to offer evidence for the opposite side. You cannot show evidence for the non existence of something rather it takes evidence to show that it exists.
So the default position is taken when there is no evidence present which is atheism.
To the child there is no evidence of a god even if they do not know of the concept.
Not knowing about god still means they do not believe in a god. Maybe if they were offered evidence they may change but until then they are an atheist.
surely you’re aware that supernatural belief is ubiquitous in young children. I thought it was common knowledge among those of us who’ve been children.
“A child doesn’t start believing in ghosts until someone tells them the concept of a ghost.”
right, but their MINDSET is such that supernatural ideas (ghosts, whatever else) seem PLAUSIBLE to children. That’s what I’m trying to explain here. They don’t believe in ghosts by default, but they believe (by default) in a reality where ghosts COULD exist until they are educated otherwise.
I’m not arguing on semantics at all, you’re just not understanding the argument I’m making. I’m not the most concise writer, sorry.
Basically we don’t know what infants believe, because they can’t tell us. But we do agree that whatever their beliefs are, they don’t rule out the supernatural by default. Therefore the unformed, uneducated, most basic human (infant) worldview is more consistent with religious belief (if not necesserily Theistic belief) than it is with Atheistic belief.
As far as I know young children can develop some sort of notion of one or more deities or some sort of afterlife-concept independently, albeit unconsciously, as a result of the human capacity of abstract thinking (i.e. imagining a person that is not present, even a dead person).
I think he means very young infants. Also, you can’t know that children develop what you say unless you keep one isolated from all forms of media and opinion and then ask it its views.
did you read what Burbinator posted? he said children can develop a notion of a deity or afterlife INDEPENDENTLY of outside sources, based on some tendencies of the human mind. This may or may not be correct, but at least there’s an argument there beyond simply stating that your opinion is correct.
Obviously the worldview of an infant isn’t going to include the Christian god, jesus, etc, but that doesn’t mean there’s no concept of a deity. There’s some reason every culture in history has independently developed religion, I happen to think the reason has to do with the basic nature of human consciousness. If our basic nature was athiesm, I think there’d be a larger proportion of humanity being athiests.
All primitive societies developed religion in some form or another because they needed some way to describe the things they could not understand or explain in their surroundings. This is why most polytheistic cultures gods’ portfolios tend to include things that primitive people couldn’t puzzle out with the tools and or mindset they possessed.
-The Sun
-The Moon
-Etc.
Also I think he is mostly implying that since you can’t really understand or have an opinion on anything as an infant, you can’t really have an opinion on the existence of god yay or nay, thereby defaulting you to athiest. This doesn’t really apply to older children, but I don’t think that’s what he was getting at anyway.
Your point does not change my statement that atheism is the default position.
And I have yet to see proof that a child can independantly come to the conclusion of a deity without any outside social forces.
Like someone previously said that child would have to be blocked out from society.
I mean have you seen how much “god” is added in to our life. You see the concept everywhere.
The reason you see religion spread out is because of conquering nations spreading their beliefs.
And if you look back into history you can see how one religion changes into a different religion but they were all based from the same concept.
People had differences in belief and the winner would get to keep his belief in society.
Jesus mimics a lot of the older gods and the god of the old testament mimics older gods too.
As time went by and evidence showed that it wasn’t Zeus throwing lightning bolts or Apollo carrying the earth the concept of a god changed.
In order for the concept of god to be believable they needed to make god more vague and unknowable.
If you study culture you can see this change.
Even if the nature of humanity was to arrive at the position of Theism (which there is no evidence of) that would not defeat my statement that we are still born atheists and it is the default position.
The default position cannot be a belief in a god because it is impossible to provide evidence of the contrary. It would be a unfalsifiable position and therefore a fallacy.
Atheism is on the rise and that could be partly because of our progress in technology and understanding of the universe.
God is having more trouble hiding out in the universe as we discover more about it.
Also evidence does point to that the more educated a person is the less religious they are.
Not having “an opinion on the existence of god yay or nay” doesn’t make you an atheist. In fact it explicitly makes you not an atheist. Atheism is the active disbelief in a god. I think the infant worldview has more in common with theism, I doubt the concept of an all-powerful creator would seem odd to an infant since that’s basically the role played by their parents. The concept of an uncontrolled, random universe would probably seem alien to an infant because they are totally dependent on a “higher power” for their survival, i.e. their parents. Of course there’s no “evidence” for this idea, just logic.
As far as primitive cultures and advanced ones, interesting topic, “they needed some way to describe the things they could not understand or explain in their surroundings” ok, but why did they consistently explain these things theistically as opposed to, i don’t know, “THE FORCE,” magic, or something non-personified? It’s always a god or gods, which leads me to conclude that the concept of an all-powerful being is hard-wired.
Not having an opinion still doesn’t change the fact they don’t believe in a god.
Belief in god is like a light switch. There is only off and on.
In belief of a god there is only no belief or belief.
Maybe in primitive cultures god was more consistent but if an atheist nation were to be dominant in the past atheism might be the main group in the world today.
Social pressures can make people believe all sorts of things. But the more educated you are the more you can sort out those beliefs.
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