I am assuming the experiences are things like ndes, these are purely emotional and emotions should serve no other purpose than making you happy and motivating you.
Let’s take shrooms! We’ll be better!
No. Shrooms and other drugs give you the reward (happiness) without the work (job, school, relationships etc.). This almost always leads to lack of concern and motivation and extreme laziness. Drugs=bad, end of discussion.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m sure when Johns-Hopkins medical researchers say “positive changes in behavior and attitude” they actually mean “extreme laziness.”
You mentioned a link between spiritualism and psychedelics, science has concluded it exists. That’s all I’m saying.
True, true.
That’s a good point, but said things aren’t nearly as engulfing as drugs. And many forms of entertainment create relationships. Weed and other light drugs are also considered “gateway drugs” and while you’re using them they put you in a haze. And finally, many drugs will make you really happy, but when they wear off you’re even less happy than before. So you go back to the drug, but this time you aren’t quite as happy. And so on, until you’re completely addicted.
The difference is you are calling spiritualism a positive behavior and attitude.
Out of the hundreds of stoners and druggies I’ve known only one or two do well in school, perhaps only stupid people use drugs, or drugs make you stupid, either way they’re bad.
You have to be a certain type of “stupid” to start taking drugs regularly. Then, they make you even more stupid.
Clever people take a few joints for the experience and then say “ok, done. I’ve tasted it and it’s definetly not worth all the money”. Same with alcohol and cigarettes, basically. And gambling… and so on…
I’m not calling anything anything, I’m directly quoting research, verbatim, from Johns-Hopkins University, the top medical school in the US.
i tried to believe in non interventionist god but someone sent me a cease and deist
The gateway drug thing is a myth. Any degree to which it is true is because it is illegal, which causes it to be sold by the same people who sell it with harder drugs.
That is all.
BS.
Drugs mess up your judgement so while stoned or drunk it’s a lot more likely you’re gonna try something a lot worse. And while stoned or drunk you’ll probably be in an environment (stoner party drunk party) where harder drugs are present. You’re judgement is screwed up and you’re in an environment with harder drugs. This may not be the case for everyone, but it is this way for a lot of people. Also, while drunk or stoned you’re gonna go out and get AIDs or herpes or maybe become a 16 year old father.
Maybe you can take light drugs without getting stupid enough to try a worse drug, but it’s isn’t the same for everyone else. And weed will almost always make you do worse in school or work or whatever responsibilities you have.
Weed doesn’t necessarily mess up your judgement. I have done weed plenty of times, and have never been near any harder drugs. The only reason that might be the case in some places is because it’s illegal, like those harder harder drugs.
And I’ll say it again. 90% of the people I know have done weed at least once, and many of them do it on a regular basis, or at least every once in a while. None of them have any STDs or have unwanted children. Most of them do well at school.
The reason why there might be a (non-causal!) link between weed and stupid behaviour and bad performance at school is because it’s not socially accepted. This causes people who are already in bad shape mentally to do weed, out of rebellion or just because they’re looking for a kick.
Until I see evidence showing a direct causal link between weed and erratic behaviour or bad performance, I’m not going to buy into any anti-drug propaganda.
I’m not sure if someone asked this, but I asked a deist friend of mind this a few years ago, and he was so dumbstruck he became an atheist. Still is.
Do you believe that “god” is some sort of infinity that exists through all things? A mathematical constant that binds everything together? A membrane of the 11th dimension, the tentacles of which entwine with all existence, not necessarily sentient, but possibly a “force” like gravity?
Then where is your proof?
Diesm and theism are related in the aspects of theism being the belief in a god. The difference is that deists believe god does not interfere with nature but merely created the rules of which it runs.
Its a mix of faith based and an understanding that the odds of our own creation are so insurmountably slim that its almost irrefutable that we were created by something though his own involvement other then our creation is very unforeseen.
didn’t realize Kane had unlocked it 
Faith is not something provable one either has it or he doesn’t. I don’t judge ones religious beliefs its simply my belief that theres not enough proof to refute or prove the existence of god but I believe something is out there. Chance and luck cannot be the only means of creation its just too perfect.
I am not spiritual at all. In fact I’m not very religious. I don’t belief in an afterlife or that god is going to save us from our own demise. Deism is a religion that has no set foundation it cannot be followed its more of an understanding. Deism is the belief in god through logic and nature, nature being key for me. I look at the natural world and think to me self not oh what created this and ponder it for hours more I look at the natural world and understand that things work so smoothly and wondrously around us in what appears to be complete chaos when observed closely but all things have this set of rules that they follow that something had to of created these rules. I don’t aim to understand the creator as much I do the rules he set about only then do I think we can every begin to understand what made the rules of nature.
I think the argument here is simply a difference in culture. Where I live, not only is it not socially unacceptable to smoke weed but it’s actually thought of as “cool”. if you smoke weed you automatically raise several bars in the social pecking order. But then again I do live in a stoner town full of hippies and go to a highschool full of retarded angsty teenagers. I’m sure our standards of “doing well in school” are very very different. If you have anything lower than a B and have an IQ of at least 100 I don’t think you are doing well in school. The reason you may not be fucked up from doing drugs and it may not be a gateway drug for you is because everybody reacts differently to drugs. You may be lucky and not have massively negative effects and no addiction, but for a lot of people, this isn’t the case.
@ Perky:
Any logic or argument based of faith is irrelevant. Faith is emotion, not logic reason or thought and thus has no place in interpretations of the world. Also, creation isn’t “too perfect.” There’s cancer, disease famine, mutations, and more. That isn’t very perfect by my standards.
I would prefer for this thread to stay on the topic of Deism you should open a thread for discussion on opinions on drugs if you wish to debate them if there is not already one. Thank you kindly.
Also @garthbartin
By creation I mean the start not what happened later. What caused the Big Bang do we know? We have theories but no evidence. Cancer, mutation, famine all these things do not contradict my statement of god, the I believe in has only set about the rules of the universe not what we do. God did not create famine or plagues they happened naturally. Its hard to understand faith when one has none of his own I can’t fully describe it I suppose you could think of it as the blindly believing against all odds, for Christians this means to achieve a better afterlife, however since I do not believe in afterlife I have faith because it fuels my urge to understand the natural world. I am a very firm believer in all of Darwin’s theories. I believe them to be the rules in which God set about creation he doesn’t follow us around telling us good and evil, and I don’t think he wants our adoration.
do you believe in a god who basically set the universe spinning then buggered off? where did he come from, if he just always existed isnt it a simpler theory that the universe jsut always existed in some form? Dont cut yerself on occams razor
@Perky, I’ll try to leave drug discussion out of this.
Blindly believing against all odds is by definition, for lack of a better word, stupid. That’s like having duece seven off-suit in Texas Hold 'Em and going all in. Way more often than not, your gonna end up out of chips and looking like an idiot.
I perfectly understand faith, probably better than you, because I understand that it is stupid.
@hercule poirots nutsack, But you must admit the universe has rules. It has a purpose I’m not afraid to admit that I could be wrong in my belief but if I’m wrong whats going to happen? Well if I’m wrong it’ll be the same as if I’m right nothingness at death I don’t care to ever meet God because I feel simply being on this earth in this galaxy in this universe I’ve already met God. God is all around me, God is glue that holds the universe together keeps its self from falling apart think of God in a way like a computer programming he created the code of the universe and its still compiling. I simply want to understand what God has created not who God is.
@garthbartin, I’m not saying faith in itself is the greatest thing its something people have sure it leads to stupid things like wars and riots, but it also is what fuels discovery, religion can go hand in hand with science when people are not blinded by books and stories, but have the goal to understand the world around them for what God created it to be. Also you can say you have no faith but you do have faith. Faith that god does not Exist.
No. You believe in something without proof or even a theoretical basis. That’s faith.
We do not believe in that thing because there is no proof or even a theoretical basis. That’s not faith.
About those rules. If any model of the universe in which there are a practically infinite amount of possible iterations or instances of the universe is correct, there would be a different set of “rules” in each iteration or instance.
It would then be inevitable for one of those to have our “rules,” making life as we know it possible.
This is the anthropomorphic principle.
BTW, I responded to the weed thing in the Drugs & Alcohol thread, garth 
Well deep down I feel my belief and faith comes from my full belief in Pascal’s Wager. Stating that simply you are better off having faith in a God and being wrong in the end then to have had no faith at all and there is a God. Which is what has always bugged me about atheism you have nothing to lose from believe in god (I’m not saying you become some sheep to a cult or Christianity.) Just a little blind faith you don’t even have to pick up the bible. You have nothing to lose but everything to gain. But religion is a choice and I’m not trying to convert anyone.
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