When the music starts at the beggining of the battle, in the first part of C2A5H, it seems a bit random to me, and I worry that a player might accidentaly stumble into the trigger and subsequently miss the beggining of the battle as they explore the room.
I almost think it would help to move the trigger to a spot nearer to the hole in the wall through which you view the battle in your video. I also think that maybe the battle could start with some aliens teleporting in and cueing the music which the teleporting would in turn be cued by the aforementioned trigger that was moved towards the window.:3
With the trigger set near the window, I think there would be little chance that the player could trigger the music and battle while having their back turned. :freeman:
I don’t mean to sound demanding or pretentious, but I just felt that the trigger was a bit off in it’s placement. Otherwise, this remake is turing out awesome and I’m impressed at how little time it has taken to get this far! (I’ve watched every video btw. ) I really love that this whole part is coming back in some form, as it’s absence was my greatest dissapointment (of a list of very few others) in Black Mesa. Keep up the excelent, hard work! I’m excited to see the final product of this foray into fixing what was lost in the context of unfortunate and unnavoidable cuts to BM.
The puzzle at the end, where you have to jump on the pipes, maybe make the breakable windows more noticeable. As it stands now, the windows on the upper floor look identical to the ones on the bottom, and I’m afraid players that haven’t seen the video won’t know where to go. Maybe just create a gaping hole on the side of the building so players can see that they have to go there. Otherwise, great video!
Maybe the window itself could be shot out from the unseen fight with the soldiers and the seen fight with the aliens? It would definitely draw attention up to the windows if one of them was broken or cracked with bullet holes in it or something.
I agree with a earlier post, replace that ugly ladder with a jump pad and fill that bath room with the xen plants.
notes from video
love the steam puzzle in the gas works makes sense do to the dead soldiers and location unlike some puzzles I have seen in maps.
on the crashed copter rotate it to be along the road and put visible damage in the road other wise it will look like it just landed and then exploded instead of crashing. maybe put a dead soldier near it.
a good way to show that you can use the barrels to block the gas from the burner is to put a sign near it that says something like do not obstruct gas flow.
There are a lot of criticisms posted here which I will definitely take to heart. Like I said this version was a lot more rough than my last map, but it’s good - I’ve gained a lot of ideas for the next version already. I’ll try and address some of the feedback but there’s so much! I’ll try and address everyone individually, and with the quote I’ll just sum up the main point of what they’re saying rather than quote everything.
Suffice to say I want to thank everyone for their kind words. I really appreciate all the feedback and response I’ve been getting.
The aliens just randomly teleporting in (or so it seems!) is consistent with how it was on previous levels, both mine and the dev team’s. There’s never been any sign of Mantas forcing them in and I don’t see why I should change that. However the timing is off, which might be the reason it seems so jarring. But I very quickly threw together most of the timed events on this map, I’m probably going to make it more random for the final version.
As for the Xenoflora in the bathroom area and the second jump pad, I say hell yes. I originally had a second jump pad through the hole in the ceiling but it didn’t work too well so I scrapped it. Perhaps with a bit of tinkering it could work.
I programmed them to move in formation with the tank until it stops, then they’re supposed to charge the aliens. They do so about 40% of the time. I don’t know why they don’t like to do it. I’m sure I’ll figure it out eventually with some extended testing. That playthrough they went half and half, they came out but then decided not to charge.
There are 3 waves, perhaps 4 if we’re playing semantics. First wave is the fight (aliens + humans) that happens when you come out. Second wave is tank/HECU reinforcements (humans only) pulling in. Third appears after the Manta blows up the tank (aliens + humans). Fourth appears at 50 cal (aliens only). Only the fourth happens after the battle has ended. It does need to flow better, but they are supposed to appear roughly when they did (but with tighter timing!)
This one is a head scratcher for sure. I’m probably gonna have to mess with the layout of the building you emerge from. It’s really inefficient to have the battle going on when the player can’t see it, as it uses up resources on a fight the player can’t even witness. But the fight HAS to begin literally as soon as the player is able to see that area, which is basically the way I’ve timed it right now (also addressed to the guy who said the music timing was weird). Otherwise the player’ll see them all standing around waiting to be activated. I’m probably going to have to use a clever combination of distant combat sounds and very carefully placed triggers. The current solution is a temporary measure.
Skill.cfg wise the aliens outnumber the HECU so vastly I can’t see it being a problem. I will definitely do it at some point further down the line though.
I will remove some of the gas from the Satchel Pipe scene. I do need to make it apparent there’s a gas leak there, however.
The timing for the Satchel scene got a little messed up when I added nodes to the area around the HECU soldier. I think he moves around while he’s waiting for you so doesn’t throw the bomb as immediately as he used to in my older versions of the scene. I’ll look into it. The door used to close before the bomb went off, I think because of the timing getting screwed up a little it closes after now, but it does close.
As to the window in the Barney room, you’re right. I definitely need to make it clearer. When I get near completion there are going to be plenty of distant ambient battle sounds. I can probably implement something along the lines of a bomb landing nearby, causing the warehouse to shake, perhaps rupturing a few gas lines as you walk in and smashing out the glass (loudly!). Combine that with some kind of better lighting and it should be obvious enough.
There was a ladder in that pipe in the original. I sat there for literally 10 minutes trying to figure out what the heck I could replace it with and drew blanks. Ladder is a temporary measure. The player can’t jump up to the higher pipe, and I can’t lower it because it’s already touching the pipe below it.
As to pipe dimensions, it’s 64 X 64, and the player cannot stand inside it. It’s about as small as it can get while the player can still get inside it. I think 56 X 56 is the limit, and it’s not worth the hassle it’ll take to change everything around to shrink it down another 8 units.
With the trucks + sandbags the implications is the truck pulled up and set up the barricade. I could make that clearer though.
Thank you, and that’s a very good idea.
The Alien Grunt normally attacks you, he didn’t in the video because I kept flinch locking him by shooting him. You can see MP5 marines do it to grunts which try to melee them too, they flinch lock him and he can’t move. I’ve already changed the harrier positioning (was much easier to do than mess around with the 2nd manta) - he now chases the Manta which goes left.
Sniper on the rooftop is killable, I just chose not to do so in the video. Having a dead marine with RPG nearby is a good idea. I seem to have received a lot of comment about my valves! But I used the ones from Forget About Freeman, so it’s not inconsistent with the rest of BM. It’s how they are in BM! But I will change it probably, seeing as so many people have mentioned it. Xen Fauna is on the cards, and I will work on improvements to the gasworks.
Hope this has answered some questions. Now I have a few of my own. I was expecting more criticism over my gasworks, both in terms of aesthetic and layout. So far the most I’ve had was about the pipe/window jumping bit. Does this mean you guys think it’s mostly fine as it is (only polish really needed?)
I was also expecting more criticism over my Furnace room. Does this mean you guys like it the way it is? (Of course minor changes here and there will be made, mostly polish).
To make it more of a puzzle could you have one of those valves missing and you have to find it? Its nice the way it is though so i wont complain just an after thought.
Haven’t watched the video yet, I’ll post full impressions when I do. But from the still images, one thing I’m noticing is that there isn’t much in the skyboxes. There’s nice fog, but no buttes or mesas or power lines going outside of the map. It feels a bit too “self-contained,” rather than becoming one with the surrounding environment.
pipes are messing, there are many pipes and it seems messy
2nd: there is very strange exit, it is just hole in a wall. for which reason this pipe exist there? It seems unnatural.
Rest is awsome. Amazing job.
And please remove these blocks on the floor(roof), its very annoying that you have to jump every minute when you under attack, and put some metal crate(on the right side of picture) over the place to hide from bullets
First of all, I’m stunned again about the quality and gameplay mechanics of the map in such a short time, keep up the good work!
1st adressing the Gasworks/window jump:
I think it was well designed, design was also believable and liked it. If you were referring to the satchel pipe, you definitely mastered it, but I agree with the others to make the player see through the gas leak (maybe you should place it at the beginning when you enter the pipe so you have to go through, idk if this works or looks good). Barney Window Thingy Puzzle was really nice and I think it already works if you have one broken window, so players see they are able to enter the room, so it’s less work for you and players know what to do. You were worried about the particle/explosion effect but i think it looks nice. Just out of curiosity, what type of entity did you use ? I’m no expert, but you could get help from someone who has experience with these things (for example the guy who replaced the weapon particle effects already mentioned, looks quite nice).
Furnace Room was also nice, I like the more tense, compact style. But you should really make it clearer to drop the boxes into the pipe like the others said. I mean you showed us now and I believe many players would have solved it regardless if they knew, but unfortunately not everyone will get the idea I assume…
Yeah, that Room made also absolutely no sense in HL. I mean the part where you drop out of the pipe makes sense (looks like under repair, so they removed a part of the pipe) but the pipe end where the soldier throws the satchel in just looks a little bit odd. Perhaps throw some props or a few more pipes in so it looks like some sort of… idk, gas station or pressure control or something ?
As for the Vort in the beginning: Didn’t the Vorts had some sort of animation where they were shown bent forward over the corpses ? or you can place 2 of them communicating over a corpse or so (You could take the animations of the talking vorts in HL2).
Hey thanks for getting back to me! In regards to your question: Furnace room
If you decide to get rid of the heat blur effect in the satchel scene (which I think is very reasonable), you may want to get rid of the reddish-colored area to the left of the tunnel which is generating the heat. Alternatively, if you decide to keep it, place that reddish-colored area closer to the tunnel entrance. Soon after Gordon crosses it, have the marine drop the charge. The player should see the explosion come toward him before the heat blur distorts the effect so you’ll need to test and optimize this.
I agree with the previous posts; the furnace room exit does look a little weird. Maybe it would look better if the walls were dirty or if the right wall was continuous with the left wall (in the same plane). Perhaps adding more furnace room props/architecture would help (see attached images).
There’s a second pipe that you crawl into which has the same reddish-colored area (the blue fire pipe). Since the heat blur effect is pretty cool, you could include it here or in other parts of the furnace room proper.
Gasworks
Layout wise, everything looks great. As other players mentioned, finding the window you need to get into should be more intuitive (e.g. broken already, a flashing light or explosion near it to grab the player’s attention)
Wider pipes to access the window room to avoid the need of an invisible wall. This also allows you to direct the player more intuitively.
Consider adding more pipes around the gasholder tanks, purely for aesthetics. I’ve provided some concept images below.
General/Misc
If you decide to keep the vort that’s using the HEV charger, make sure that the amount the charger gives you is noticeably less than what it usually dispenses.
Once you’re satisfied with the layout, you’ll need to think hard about proper health/battery placement. Given the current level of game balance (or imbalance), Gordon’s gonna take lots of damage on hard mode with the number of enemies you have. Weapons/ammo should be less of an issue, since there are so many marine corpses.
Gotta test what happens if the players wreck scripts…e.g. kill the Osprey or Abrahms before the mantas get to them.
Regarding in game music and scripted sequences, make sure that the amount you put in is not excessive compared to the rest of the BMS mod. Otherwise, it would be like comparing the special effects from the new Star Wars trilogy (you) with the old trilogy (BMS).
mmm, maybe you can make some of the pipes go diagonal, that way there is no need for the ladder, makes sense, and brakes a bit of the “bloky” feeling that straight pipes have, but i dont know if there is enought space in that room for that.
Also, completaly unrelated, I was thinking the other night about making Agrunts use the jumpads. I mean, they dont look like terrain generated, nor do they a prupose other than propeling the player up. My idea is that they are like combat ladders used by engeeniers in the human military. They may be dropped from mantas, grow a bit and used by Xen forces to get to high ground.
All this came from the idea of the player moving into that bathroom with the broken ceiling. I trough it will be cool to see an Alien grunt destroy the roof and drop in front of the player. Then this complicated scene of Alien grunts teleporting on the road and using jumpads to jump to the roof came to my mind, but I couldt find a single prupose for that, and the roof is to small to have a battle there
I’ve just seen your video…
Your map live it up to BM standars and adds more scripted events.
Rank: A+
Possible Improvements[/SIZE]
Furnace Room Puzzle
It’s not clear that you have to stop the flow of the gas.
Irl you can’t stop the flow of a gas in that way.
I suggest you to do the same puzzle of the freeze room(Office Complex):
Find the valve,place it in position and then turn the gas off.
Breakable window puzzle
It’s not clear that you can break that window, because of the model of glass you used it:
that model is used for unbreakable glasses. Replace it with the breakable window model.
In this way a player that look at it from the lower floor can understand the way out.
Ladder in bathroom
locked/unlocked door
The door at the end of the map should have a red light the first time you see it.
In you current build of the map, the door has always a green light, regardless if it’s locked or not.
Tail on Harrier disappears suddently, instead of fading away in the wind
The pipe u walk in just before u use the TAU gun in hangar, maybe make it one pipe instead of two pipes and those break and u fall down into those room with those red cabines with tools, u open door and then u use your TAU
Make from those room where u see the security guard (where he needs to press the buttons to open the doors), a room in a room, so in the corner a little security room like u see when u first enter Black Mesa and u need to get verified before entering the big room with the desk in the middle
Yeah there are a few fixes and improvements needed, but it looks amazing so far! I’d just suggest a more dynamic sniper scene (more cover, exploding boxes etc.).
Hello first of all I want to tell you that the work you showed sofar looks amazing and it is very much something I was secretly wishing to be in BMS from beggining =)
I personally If I may suggest would simplyfy Puzzle in boilerroom to turn off gas by valve and sufocate rest of flames by prop objects. Somehow it makes more sence to my common sence =)
Also I would like you to consider to use your skills for yet another thing, that from design point of view should have stayed as it was in original and thats the rocket launch at the end of “on the rail”.
Reasons:
First thing that bohters me most is that rocket which is almost hundered tons is almost not supported by anyting, when its lifted up. there is one lamp standing along it from wich are illogicaly two wires connectiong to the rocked, why ffs ? and rocket it self is standing on fragile looking bar grid (space technology like hell). It looks like the rocket is holding there at risk of falling of to side.
Furthure it is absolutly illogical to lift rocket out of launch silo by elevator, when the silo is made to launch rockets, not just because it has capability to support rocket but also it uses energy of engine much better.
Keeping rocket in the silo is much smarter as for design of event alone (and is much more convincing), because u save your self lot of work, and let players fantasy work bit more and let him imagine all the details. Rocket surfrice launch require massive holder and ton of other shit. and having holder above silo is pure nonsence, since silo has that function already, Well and worse option, lanuching without holder (I really cant count lamp as holder for rocket) just looks very non convincing and for me it was weakest design point of entire BMS.
Solution:
Changing rocket sequence to not use lift and stay underground and launch from underground would be much much better, that is in short what I feel would make it much better - remember EP2 rocket lounch =) Effects are not everything especially when out of place.
So please If you could consider it. And share your opention atleast.
I will take the time a little later to address the vast amounts of feedback flooding into this thread. I really appreciate it - there’s some great feedback here. I will talk about it later when I take a break from mapping, and I’ll write another big post.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
) I really love that this whole part is coming back in some form, as it’s absence was my greatest dissapointment (of a list of very few others) in Black Mesa. Keep up the excelent, hard work! I’m excited to see the final product of this foray into fixing what was lost in the context of unfortunate and unnavoidable cuts to BM. 
there is very strange exit, it is just hole in a wall. for which reason this pipe exist there? It seems unnatural.
