Hello, and thank you for taking the time to write a comment about this mod, I appreciate it, as well as the feedback. For the record your English is excellent, I understood what you were saying just fine.
I will make the general point here, for you and for anyone else, that I am not working on a v1.2, nor do I intend to in the near future. V1.11 final was indeed, the final version. The future is uncertain for Black Mesa. If and when the Black Mesa team releases the update (which will probably accompany the Xen release), I may come back to ST Uncut. If the update significantly changes soldier balance, or it breaks the maps in some way, I will make a v1.2. 1.2 would address the things the update breaks in addition to a few minor fixes here and there. Otherwise (if the update doesn’t change much), 1.11 will be the final version. It’s how I’d always intended it.
I’ll reply to your 3 main points now, out of courtesy.
It’s a bug with the alien AI in Black Mesa. We’ve run into this problem during the testing for OaR Uncut too. The AGrunt IS programmed to attack you immediately upon seeing you. Black Mesa’s Alien AI is a bit bugged (WE THINK!) in that if the AI doesn’t have a clear path they can take to melee the player, they end up standing still and doing nothing. This issue may not be fixable without redesigning the scene a little bit.
Doable - but extraordinarily complicated and over the top. The other problem too is the LAV’s corpse getting in the way of the Garg if he throws it at you, which is why I have him throwing it to the side instead. The LAV’s “corpse” is a physics object but if it gets in his way, bad things happen.
This does happen. If you go through to FaF without killing the Garg, he will follow you. As for making the ceiling collapse on him later on, that cannot happen. I don’t have the cinematic physics models for that, and it would also require me to make further edits to C3A1A which I do not intend on doing.
I don’t recall any discussion about it, but then again I only ‘arrived’ at the very late stages of development. My computer couldn’t handle BM before that :fffuuu:
I did kinda miss that scene and I wish stock BM (not just STU) had more Apache flybys even though you didn’t have to fight them.
I did it myself using HL1 files. Some words are missing, so I used what is available and edited them to make them sound like what is said in the closed captions.
Is it possible to add custom soundscapes for your maps? I feel ST’s are too ‘passive’ for what’s supposed to be the breaking point in your maps, I had some sound files for heavy combat I wanted to add in place of them. I know you said you just copied ST’s soundscapes, but looking at BM’s, I find myself wondering how yours works when there isn’t any text regarding your maps in them. But like I said, I just don’t know for sure how it works in the first place, or how you set it up, or if it’s possible to change them without altering any other maps.
All the soundscapes used in my maps are found in soundscapes_c2a5. I pretty much used the C2A5H soundscapes on all parts of the maps as they fit the best by far. The soundscapes don’t need to contain specific reference to the actual map name, the soundscape used is referenced within the env_soundscape entity. For example, any env_soundscape which is located outside would point to “c2a5h.outside”.
You could either modify the c2a5h.outside soundscape with whatever changes you’d want to make, but this would mean it would affect any map which uses that soundscape (and I think quite a lot of stock BM maps use the soundscape c2a5h.outside too).
A more radical proposal would be to create your own soundscape with the changes you want. You could then probably use entspy to edit the env_soundscapes on my maps to point to your new soundscape, meaning you don’t have to decompile and recompile the map to make that change. It’s a bit of work but I think that would work.
I was considering it. Decompiling and recompiling maps is a huge pain in the arse though, because areaportals and occluders (the 2 primary components of optimization which Black Mesa uses, visleaving doesn’t help much outdoors) get completely broken during the decompilation process and have to be rebuilt from scratch. And because they’re broken when I view them in the editor, there’s no way for me to properly know precisely how BM had them set up, thus meaning when I remake them they’ll probably be worse.
And having played through all ST quite a few times over the development of ST Uncut, I came to the personal conclusion that recreating that scene wouldn’t work too well in Black Mesa. Firstly, there’s nowhere for the tentacle to go. Black Mesa removed the second courtyard (the one which housed the Tentacle in HL1) and replaced it with a really cool (optional) tunnel system. I wouldn’t want to remove that. So I’d have to find somewhere else to put the Tentacle, and there REALLY isn’t anywhere else on the player’s path that would work well, sadly. In addition, Black Mesa’s Apache deals absolutely fucking vast amounts of accurate damage, where the HECU on the B map are ALREADY massively more damaging and threatening than they were in HL1. The Houndeyes too. The extra difficulty of the tougher enemies in Black Mesa compared to HL1, coupled with the extra deadliness of BM’s Apache compared to HL1, would simply make the B map WAY too frustrating if the Apache was stalking you. At least in my mind, it would probably drive players mad.
If and when BM releases their next update (which will undoubtedly nerf the HECU and the Apache) then I may very well end up doing it, along with updating the STU maps. I would still like to see that scene in Black Mesa.
Oooh I see, that explains it. I incorrectly assumed that you had to create a new one for each area and link it to the text file, which is what I was looking for. That’s why I couldn’t find them. The reason I was seeing about this was because I created a custom sound file with heavier battle sounds (aka I just mixed a soundscape that I found with hl2 soundscapes to make it sound more hectic) which I was going to place in your maps to make the fighting sound much more heated.
I’ll look into the other solutions you’ve mentioned, and hopefully find one there. Thanks for telling me how it works so I know what I’m looking at here
I’m really impressed with Surface Tension Uncut, and am definitely keeping it as part of my definitive Black Mesa experience. Great mapping, great gameplay, and it really helps to properly explain why the HECU guys are pulling out by Forget About Freeman.
However, there is one thing that’s really bothering me. (Sorry if I’m being overly picky. I’m a realism/immersion junkie.) In the garage where the HECU soldiers shoot up into the vent the player enters from, the visible dust mote effect is angled downward, whereas the sunlight is angled sideways. The only reason dust motes become visible like that is exposure to bright light. Every time I enter that garage, that always breaks the immersion for me. The dust mote effect should be contained within the sunlight. Just thought I should mention it, especially since everything else is so perfect…
I just found out about this map pack, and I have to say you did a great job with the maps. I had a few gripes, and in fact wish I could have helped you alpha test the maps because they are very good yet could use with some sense tweaking and a few other things. I have screenshots and a video I’m uploading of the parts that I want to mention. I know you might not be working on this anymore, so if you aren’t is there a way I could get ahold of the vmf files? Because they are relatively small tweaks.
The thing that bugged me the most is probably the portion of the tow missile vs the grunts, because when you are getting shot with bees you actually can’t physically shoot back, thus making using the turret pointless. Either having the grunts attack you slower so it’s a more drawn out fight or having some of them spawn in would fix that.
Also there’s a few parts where it seems like you thought the player was much taller than he really is, because there’s quite a few times where views are blocked entirely by having windows be much too high, or other areas where the amazing vistas you created were wasted by having unnecessary walls in the way.
Also, there is one portion where you had many MANY environmental steam pipe hazards, and that part was just a little bit overdone. Looking at it from below makes it look like chaos, and there’s really no visible reason for every single pipe to be leaking from multiple places all in the same area. Maybe if there was a firefight there as you got up there causing explosions and pipes bursting, but as you have it now it looks overdone and gimmicky.
Otherwise, very well done. I really enjoyed the level of effort you put into your maps, they look very similar to the devs in style as well as quality, while also adding quite a few set pieces of your own that were excellent.
Thank you for the feedback. I will probably make a few tweaks here and there once I’ve finished OaR Uncut, to allow myself to revisit my older work with a fresh and more knowledgeable perspective. Undoubtedly quite a few things will change if and when I get there, which won’t be for a while, admittedly.
Firstly, I will not give out my vmfs. I don’t think you’ll find very mappers who would do such a thing for work they’ve released and poured so much into. If you really want to mess around with the maps on your own, there’s nothing stopping you from decompiling them and mucking around with them. Bear in mind, I do not want people re-releasing my work for any reason whatsoever. That would be most disheartening. But, for personal use, knock yourself out.
Secondly, I will address some of your feedbacks, because I have to say, I don’t personally agree with most of them. But, you took the time to write them, so I’ll respond to them with my own thoughts.
I’ve received mixed feedback on the AGrunt TOW scene, but overall it’s been mostly neutral. What do you mean by “you can’t physically shoot back?” when referring to the TOW? You specifically, or every player who plays ST Uncut? I never have any trouble reloading the TOW Launcher, and firing off 2 or 3 shots during that fight. The problem is - I can’t change the way the TOW behaves in Black Mesa. That scene would be much cooler if I could have a semi-auto gun like there was in HL1, but sadly that doesn’t exist in Black Mesa. I had to make do with what I’ve been given. I might stagger the Grunts a bit more like they were in HL1, but I was personally quite happy with the way the scene turned out. It was supposed to be a little overwhelming. There aren’t many scenes in Black Mesa where the aliens themselves put harsh pressure on you, I thought that might be nice. It’s also designed to encourage the players to use the various tools which they were given for that section, such as the tripmines, satchels, sentry turret, and the exploding truck next to the door. With all these things, I don’t think it’s really that difficult.
As for the stuff involving heights, the standard heights for windows in Black Mesa are around 30 - 40 units off the ground, relative to their floor, unless they have an unusual/unorthodox configuration (such as C2A5G’s garage window). Though I may be wrong, I just took a quick glance through my ST Uncut maps, and I couldn’t find or remember anywhere where I exceeded this height measurement. The only notable exception is the windows to the security office in the gasworks on C2A5H, and the only reason these windows are high up is because it makes the player need to climb on the pipe to reach them. Those can’t physically BE any lower, otherwise the pipes would clip through the walkway. As for other stuff being too high or too low, this was something which was noticed during testing and I standardized a lot of the heights (such as gun racks, health stations) to be like the rest of Black Mesa. If there are any specific instances which really bugged you, I’d love to hear them. I can then either address them in the future, or compare them to the rest of Black Mesa to see if there is a big difference.
As for the steam pipe hazards, your feedback is the first fairly negative one I’ve really heard about it. It may be a little overdone yes, but it doesn’t defy realism, as you suggest.
Were we looking at the same scene? There was clearly an extremely large firefight taking place throughout the entire gasworks. Not only were 5 Marines slaughtered by aliens on the ground floor, there was a huge firefight in the security office too, with at least 4 - 5 casualties there too! Also, an Apache helicopter has crashed through the roof of the gasworks, causing chaos and destruction everywhere! If that isn’t enough to rupture a whole bunch of gas lines, then what is? I could perhaps do with some more destroyed pipes and visible signs of structural damage, and that is something I might think about for future versions. Besides, remember what it’s replacing from HL1? Anything’s better than what was there before. I’m not so sure it stretches reason though.
Thanks for your feedback. It’s always nice to hear from the community.
Um, maybe I’m missing the point here, but why exactly do the dust motes have to be moving in the same direction as the sunlight? I’m pretty sure that’s not how dust works. The actual trigger container for the dust motes IS angled at a 45 degree angle to the window, but I’m pretty sure that Hammer doesn’t allow you to change the movement direction of said dust motes. In future versions I will probably decrease their opacity and leave it there. I’m not sure there’s anything else I can do about it, sorry.
Here are the screenshots I mentioned and the gripes I had with them:
First off, I admire your level of consistency throughout the maps, it’s obvious you went through a lot to make sure everything was connected, but there’s a few things that don’t make sense. Namely destroyed parts of the map and “clean” or untouched parts of the facility are too separate as well as some cluttering with buildings resulting in oversaturation to the point where you can’t really see how things are connected or even the amazing vistas you created.
So, the car park was one thing I was confused on, because it’s VERY destroyed, also in ways that don’t make sense. Was this place being shelled? If so there isn’t really a way for the bottom floor of the park to be destroyed like that considering there’s no egress for any shell, alien or human. HL2 was really good about having that, telling stories with every headcrab shell usually, but this one was mostly destroyed in ways that made no sense especially in the context of the other buildings around it.
Another problem is with the windows. There’s only 2 windows in the whole building to the outside, and both of them are too high up to even see out of anyway.
Then, the hole in the wall is pretty much by itself too, other than the same scorch mark decal several times all facing the same direction. Maybe you could have a larger portion of wall broken out if you want to go with the shelled idea, otherwise you could use a car that crashed through the wall partially or something. Also, you have far too many plain locked doors. With how you have everything connected it would be much easier to see how things were connected if all the doors weren’t locked and not see through. Maybe have some of those windowed doors or just more windows in general would help.
For instance if you just put a window or even a room with a window at the top of the stairs behind the locked door with the dead hecu in front of it, you could be looking at this:
There’s plenty of times where you have windows in great spots too but just have them completely opaque for no good reason. If entity count is getting too high, making some of the layout more efficient and taking out some of the clutter would help. For instance, the vents inside the car repair look weird and redundant from the inside, similarly to some of the excessive use of pipes later on:
Also, the exploding door scene had a lot of explosives in it, but the explosion barely affected the wall around it or even the door. You could have the door model after opening disappear and have a physics door fly at the player as well as making the wall itself have a bit more damage afterword if it’s powerful enough to shatter the window.
Now to get outside it might be hard for some people to sprint crouch jump off of the car lift, but that’s up to you. The main thing that is weird in this courtyard is the huge power plant thing looks so out of place, and especially weird considering it’s backed up right to the railing of the overlook.
Frankly, you should remove it either entirely or move it to the left hand side of the small overlook because the airstrip behind it is much cooler to look at and it really only needs a normal fence.
Same with the fence where the gas station is, you literally can’t even see the gas station at the highest point, and the fence really doesn’t need to be opaque.
Now after you fight the alien grunts with the toe missile (also, what I meant is if you are currently receiving damage the toe missile won’t launch until you stop getting shot) you come out to an amazing ai fight of aliens and hecu. A lot is happening here, and with the angle of things it can be hard to even see what’s going on. The osprey is barely visible behind the boxes and ramp on the side of the heliport, so the ramp should be repositioned so that it’s going down towards the player entrance, and frankly the secure door doesn’t make any sense being underneath the heliport 10 feet off the ground. It should either be level with the helipad or at the very bottom floor.
The building the apc comes out of could be much smaller as well, there isn’t even a road leading to the left doorway so that’s kind of strange. You could turn it into a small vehicle security checkpoint, and the hecu camp that the player can take cover behind is a weird position for it especially since none of them are there when the chaos starts and the active sentry gun is pointing at the boxes so it will never engage any of the aliens that come. It also makes the apc and 2 alien grunts that kill it very hard to see for the many players that will wait back until the fighting dies down to start interfering in the fight.
Now, I’m not pointing all this stuff out to be a drag and say you aren’t done and that you didn’t do a good job, I’m doing it because I’m sure a lot of people would like it and most of the changes would be relatively easy to implement. I have some more things to point out specifically that could be done in another post later, but If it comes down to it I’m sure me or other people would love to work on the maps so we could make them the best possible that they could be, because isn’t that the point? I know usually nobody likes to release their own work for others to change, but that’s usually my personal preference in that I usually release my stuff because I’d love to see other people make it better than I can or take things directions I didn’t think of. Still, amazing work on the mod and thank you very much! This added a lot to the game as a whole. I loved a lot of the set pieces they took out and making the aliens kick the hecu’s ass was a delight to see.
I didn’t expect a response so soon. I added you on steam in case you wish to talk about it, because I am very much interested in helping test these and the other maps if I could and if the best way to implement these ideas is to go through you I will gladly give up any of my time to help you come up with ideas or tweaks. Anyway, as for the room with all the venting steam pipes, this is probably the most nonsensical part of it at least:
Those pipes are coming directly out of a support beam, and I think instead of having the vast amount of venting steam everywhere perhaps you could have some of the walkways be collapsed more from the downed apache or something to force the player to platform if need be, because this whole part just has way too many environment hazards all in one spot. I could understand if maybe there were some aliens up there that got shot at causing bullet hole steam venting, so maybe a corpse or two near some of the venting pipes would work, or maybe you could even teleport a vortigaunt up there and have him activate some trip mines that cause the pipes to rupture considering the other trip mines up there later.
I probably should have worded that better. Sorry about that. I’m not referring to the movement of the individual dust motes. That has nothing to do with light. I only meant the trigger container for the dust motes should be angled to follow the sunlight, as it’s the sunlight that makes the dust motes become visible. I’m 99% sure I’m using the latest version (v1.11), and it looks like the trigger container goes straight down instead of being angled or is possibly angled the wrong way. The dust mote effect seems to go down to the floor, even though the light_environment’s sunlight angle has the sunlight stop high up on the wall and never go anywhere near the floor. But if you do have it angled to follow the sunlight as you say, then forget I said anything.
I realized here recently that while I have a massive photo gallery of all the other hl saga games, I do NOT have one for black mesa. (This prompted my fan card to be taken away as a result and I cried for a whole day.) But I am currently correcting this error by replaying (for the millionth time) and building a screenshot walkthrough gallery.
Seeing your work on this project though makes me want to be sure to include your segments in the photo gallery.
Question… do I download your pack now and take the screenshots as it is right now, or do I give it a bit of time and wait till you call ‘perfect’ to include screenshots of your stuff?
I remember him stating that he might or might not revisit ST to make slight alternations, but nothing major, so mostly as it is is how it’s going to stay.
Founded in 2004, Leakfree.org became one of the first online communities dedicated to Valve’s Source engine development. It is more famously known for the formation of Black Mesa: Source under the 'Leakfree Modification Team' handle in September 2004.
